nanny pay - a few questions

[catchafallingstar]

so.....do you offer a nanny net or gross pay?

just starting my search - never had a nanny before.
what questions are vital at interview and what key qualities should i be looking for?

I'll get back to you with more questions!

always gross and tbh professional nannies should want gross as well - by all means say that in this tax year it will work out about xxx nett but that the figures you work in are gross

You always offer gross.

Don't be misled by the 'professional nannies should want gross as well ' attitude though. Nanny jobs are widely advertised in net by parents and agenices, it is perfectly understandable that a young nanny or someone who has only ever worked in nannying or someone who is a bit naive about tax law could ask/negotiate in net. You should tell them that you need to discuss it in gross, but don't be led to believe that their lack of knowledge about the tax system in anyway affects their professionalism when it comes to working with children. There is absolutely no correlation between knowledge of the tax system and being a good nanny.

anyone should know what they earn gross whether a nanny or office worker

yes some agencies work in nett 'rolls eyes' but many do in gross and it is up to each nanny to say to the employer that they want a gross salary as if nothing else it benefits them

All that is true, but none of it makes someone an unprofessional nanny.

When people hear the word 'unprofessional' in relation to a nanny I promise you they're not thinking 'she knows nothing about the tax system'. They're thinking she's late/unreliable/untrustworthy/not good with the children etc. None of those things correlate with knowing about net/gross.

the way i see it, is that if someone wants to be a professional nanny then they need to know how tax etc works - same as they should have nanny insurance-but many nannies i know dont have it

so yes i dont think they are professional nannies

maybe i should reword

all nannies who know about nett/gross should always ask and talk in gross, or they are not professional - is that better :)

and

and any nanny who knows about nanny insurance should have it, or they are not professional

I think that's much better worded!

To know and understand the difference, but still talk gross is unprofessional.

To be unaware of the difference is silly, but understandable given that nanny jobs are so often advertised as net. This has no reflection on your ability to care for children, turn up on time, be reliable and do a good job.

so....gross then?

yep

holy I think you meant to know and understand the difference and still talk net!

I have many issues with net, and the pervasiveness if the arrangement doesn't help, but knowing the difference and saying 'but I want to know exactly what I'm earning, I don't care if my tax code changes and tax isn't my problem' does look greedy and unprofessional - because what else do they not care about employers footing the bill for and what else which should be their responsibility are they abdicating responsibility for. It's not that net/gross itself is intrinsically unprofessional, it's the attitude which can go with it.

that is what I meant Fraktal I was hoping no-one would notice!

I don't disagree in cases where the difference is known.

I think what we should avoid though is telling parents 'all professional nannies want to be paid gross' with the result that an 'unprofessional klaxon' goes off in their heads when a nanny says 'I'd like £10ph net' because it may well be that the nanny doesn't know the difference and just needs to be educated about it.

if you pay net you will take advantage of any reduction in NI or ICT rates but conversely will suffer if they increase. I can't remember whether the planned reductions in rate applied as of April 2012 or if there are further reductions coming up but that's worth checking as it will save you money.

(in fact it's not a change in rates, it's an increase in the personal allowances)

Good luck trying to talk gross figures. I have interviewwed many nannies over the years and never once have any of them been willing/able/prepared to negotiate a gross salary. Ultimately all of them want to know what they will be getting in their pockets for each hour they work.

The only nannies I have ever encountered who engage with gross figures are those that post on mumsnet.

I don't definitively ageee with that idea of net=unprofessional, however I do agree with aligning professionalism with gross pay and the subtle distinction of the inverse is often lost. Gross means a nanny is aware of issues facing the industry, that they know the cost of what they're asking (IYSWIM), the expectation of a legitimate arrangement is implied purely by quoting a figure with tax and NI etc. so it reflects a professional attitude. Nannies who talk net may not have been educated on the difference or they may be wilfully ignoring it. The differentiator is going to be if a parent asks whether they know what the rough figure is gross because someone who genuinely doesn't know the difference is going to be thrown by that, in which case a simple explanation puts everyone on the same page. So when nannies or parents talk net the immediate response should be to shift the frame of reference to gross, rather than the unprofessional klaxon, and only if they flat out refuse to even try should said klaxon sound.

So talking gross is an indicator of a professional nanny, but not talking gross doesn't exclude the possibility that a nanny's is just as professional as far as the hands on nature of the work is concerned. A nanny who wants to be seen as being truly professional in all aspects takes the time to do research and educate themselves on issues like gross pay and insurance so they are taken seriously as professionals, thus making it more likely they are equally assiduous in all areas (although this obviously isn't foolproof).

I have a feeling we're agreeing that a coins have heads and tails

I've noticed a big change in the last 3 months and many, many more are starting to talk both gross and net. Interesting.

you put it so more eloquently then me frak