Rules/Advice needed around pregnant nanny sick leave

[ManicMumof3]

Our nanny is currently undergoing fertility treatment to get pregnant. Although the nanny being pregnant is not ideal, I can live with it. However, I'm struggling to find legislation/guidelines on sick leave when pregnant as a nanny. My worry is that she is the type who will have a difficult pregnancy and take many odd days sick leave at short notice, i.e. phone in sick on the day. Both my husband and I work full-time and this is not a scenario we can live with. It's not about the money, it's about what we do with 2 children under 3 each time she is off sick. I know there is emergency childcare out there, but I'm not keen on putting my kids with strangers and it costs a small fortune! I also know that legislation quite rightly makes it nigh impossible to fire a pregnant employee. You may think I'm jumping the gun here as she's not pregnant, but I feel before I can even have a conversation with her about it all, I need as much information as I can get. Thoughts/advice please!

Maternity Action have a leaflet (Feb 2012 edition) which may be a useful read. It is aimed at employees but should be of some help to you as the employer.

Do you have sick pay in the contract as SSP only? If so, being off sick she runs the risk of getting no pay at all, until SSP kicks in. So not really in her interest to take the occasional day off as sick... assuming it's noting that would be passed on to your children, you may be happy for her to come to work not feeling 100% and having an easy day.

How do you know she is "the type who will have a difficult pregnancy and take many odd days sick leave at short notice". I can't see how you would know that in advance, her pregnancy may well go smoothly and she may be the sort of person who will work through mild illness. Has past history given you reason to believe that she would take time off at short notice for minor illness, rather than coming to work having taken some mild pain relief, or some Gavisgon (which can help during pregnancy).

In legislation terms, I think it is the Equality Act 2010 which contains things about discrimination against a pregnant employee.

She has been with us some time and is a sickly person. I am happy for someone with a headache or heartburn to come to work, but if she doesn't want to I can't force her. We do pay sick pay as I think Nannies get treated badly and as I get sick pay, so should she. I am just trying to prepare myself for the worst. Sadly, we are not wealthy as many people seem to assume... Sadly, there is a limit to the number of sick days I am allowed or willing to take from my job when they are necessary because my nanny is unwell.

Do you take sick days when your nanny is unwell? That would be unpaid parental leave for me or a holiday out of my annual leave entitlement.

I would change her contract to SSP only immediately (with contractual notice). You can still pay if you want to, but you won't be obligated.

When my nanny was pregnant she was fine, just the odd day off here and there for midwifes and scans. But she is the sort never to get sick and just gets on with things. I actually ended up having to make her redundant as my job changed and needed loads more hours, but no way would I have done otherwise as she was fine. I think you just know if they are the sort that will take the p....I know I was when I was pregnant first time! was off all the time (but I have never been a nanny so it was just some insurance contracts that didnt get drawn up)

I would be thinking about managing out....easier to do than you might think, trick is to make them want to leave due to hours dramatically increasing or decreasing (with contractual notice) and pay cuts etc...

ooo I feel bad for saying that but you are not there to keep a nanny, you have to be doing what is best for you and your family at the end of the day. ANd the rolled up holiday when on mat leave will cost you a bomb....

Thanks for the advice folks. I can take sick leave when she is unwell but nobody does my work when I'm off so I have to find those hours from somewhere. I also hate doing it, as I like to do a good job. I think we're going to have to sit down and have a serious chat after her hospital appointment to understand the full implications. There's always nursery for the kids I suppose... It is such a nightmare! :(

new nanny! you know it makes sense!! ;-)

think about how you'd feel if it was you telling your employer that you needed a day or two off when you were pregnant, and how virtually impossible it woudl have been for you to get a job pregnant, and therefore no maternity pay.
Then, when and if she is pregnant, have a good honest conversation with the nanny. Explain that she is required to perform her duties as best she can. There's presumably no reason she can't take your two to routine midwife appointments? let her know that, and that you won't therefore be giving her the additional time off (scans would be different, but she should use her best efforts to arrange them for first / last appointment of the day).
I don't think you can unilaterally change her contract on a fundamental poitn like payment of sick pay so if it's in her contract then you probably have to stick to it. if it's not there but something you've done anyway, explain that you can't do it any more. Lay the law down firmly but fairly - you've been in her position so act as you wanted your employer to act to you.

Although I do understand it is not easy having a pregnant nanny because of sick days or scans and checks cover how would you have felt if your employer treated you badly and made up whatever reasons so that you can't keep your job? To ChrissieLC, I wish your employers look for someone new when you are undergoing fertility treatment or pregnancy so you know how that feels.

I already got 2 kids thanks nannynorthwest london and my employers after my first one did manage me and my colleague who was pregnant out as the job needed someone who wasnt pregnant and was not taking time off, so it has happened to me and I actually think they were right for doing so, it was a small business and budget was tight, things like that can make a company go under...hence I joing a large firm before my next child as its just not fair to expect small employers to foot the bill

ps having said that I did keep my nanny until the mat leave date before I made her redundant as I was able to foot the bill of the extra childcare I needed and take the time off for the short period, but not everyone is able to do that.

Sick pay is not the problem! I don't mind paying sick pay. I am fairer than most in that respect. Unfortunately, however sympathetic I am, I can't get away from the fact that if I have to take masses of sick days because of my nanny, my Employers will not be so sympathetic! If I lose my job, she'll be out of a job as well, pregnant or not!
Unfortunately, what alot of nannies don't realise is that we, the parents/employers are 100% reliant on you and if you don't show up at a moment's notice we are absolutely stuck! Try cancelling meetings left right and centre, letting down important clients, etc. Do you have any idea how unprofessional that looks? How bad that looks on my record?
A little more information for you. The first mention of intended pregnancy was once she had been with us the 6 months necessary to qualify for maternity leave. Also, this is her first nannying job; she is a primary school teacher by trade.
All of you who ask me 'to think how I'd feel in her situation', I'm afraid it's not that simple. We are not an Employer like the blue chips out there, so it is not a comparison that can be made. We can only just afford a nanny and if we have to pay for additional childcare we will go into debt. If I lose my job, it will help no-one in this situation.
I don't want to sack her; I don't want to go through the nightmare process of finding a new nanny we all like!
I think it is becoming clear to me that I need to have a conversation about expectations. I think I will also seek professional advice.
Thanks again for the helpful comments. For the bleeding heart comments, thanks for nothing!

The cynic in me says tge career change may be influenced by wanting to return with baby. If you're not up for that you need to have the conversation with her now as she may decide to leave anyway and save you the hassle.

Thanks for this link - very useful!

Sorry, that should have been Thanks for this link nannynick.

How dare she try for a baby.? Surely only super people like you are allowed to. Good grief you are not that important.! Really you aren't

Kilmuir - Haven't you got better things to do with your time? How sad! If you haven't got anything useful to say, keep it to yourself!

kilmuir - nowhere has she suggested she is...don't be so horrible!

what alot of nannies don't realise is that we, the parents/employers are 100% reliant on you

I think a lot of nannies who post on Mumsnet do realise that. In the past we have had discussions on here about nannies being sick and it is often the case that nannies who post on here can't remember the last time they had a sick day. Maybe nannies posting on here are the Elite Nannies or maybe it's down to some reason... maybe we have all had other jobs before being a nanny, or are all older nannies - though I don't think either of those is the case.

Maybe you have just been unlucky in finding that from your personal experience of having a nanny that your particular nanny is not reliable.

Out of interest, how has having a nanny who was previously a primary teacher gone... I expect they are great with school aged children, what about babies/toddlers? Did they adjust to the working hours, the lack of having any adults to talk to, no breaks, etc.

Nannynick - We've had 2 nannies before this one and they were both great in terms of timekeeping and health. To be honest, there is alot of luck involved as one I am still in touch with has since had major health problems and had to have operations. We all get ill sometime I guess. You're right though and not just where nannies are concerned; some of us have a real sense of duty when it comes to work and NOT letting people down. I wish everyone I worked with felt this way.

Current nanny took some time to adapt. She was certainly not prepared for how much work is involved in looking after toddlers on your own. She was often a few minutes late to begin with and called in sick with a sniffle or headache. She tried to do everything with them at home but soon realised that playgroups were much easier for her! The working hours are 9 to 5 so not much difference from school and no homework! I think it took her a while to realise just how dependant we were on her being reliable and punctual.

There is a lot of luck involved. Having health issues is something that I worry about as I get older, something is bound to happen eventually.

She moved from primary school teaching to caring for toddlers - must have been quite a shock to her system. Though I guess she must have had some prior experience of toddlers, at some point in her past.