nanny is unhappy with hours but she won't tell me

[orsettorusso]

Hello, I employ a nanny to look after my toddler. We live in a not very wealthy area of South London and we pay her £800 net pcm which includes 16 weeks paid holiday (around school holidays). During term time, she works from 8.30 till 6, 4 days a week + 2 evenings a month babysitting from 8.30 till 10.30/11. I give her plenty of praise, practical help with translating and also additional paid time off when I take holidays or my parents come over for a week. She doesn't speak English (only her native language and some of our family language), she isn't OFSTED registered, she doesn't have any childcare qualifications and the only previous experience she has in this area is from raising her two daughters.

She's good with my toddler and at cleaning the house, but I was disappointed to hear from a common friend that she feels exploited because I recently started to ask her to do an additional 1 1/2 hours a week (i.e. start 30 minutes earlier 3 days a week). Do you think I am exploiting her?

I want to clear the air with her but I can't bring up the issue directly because I am not supposed to know. My partner has already tried (without telling her that we know) but she said she's totally happy. How can I speak to her without revealing that this common friend told us?

Many thanks for your thoughts on this.

I have no idea how those terms compare, but if you are asking her to increase her working week surely you should increase her pay proportionally.

Whilst 8-6 is a normal working day for a nanny, it's not unreasonable for her to be pissed off if you've just imposed 1.5 extra hours work a week for zero extra money.

I think you are exploiting her- is that even min wage?

I wouldn't work 44 hours a week for £800 a month. Is this live-in? Where are her daughters?

NB that OP has said that the 800 quid is net, so though I haven't done the sums in detail it is probably above minimum wage on a gross basis.

I did a rough calculation based on what you pay per month and annualised the hours. You are paying her about 6.80 pounds per hour net for child care and cleaning. My childcare and cleaner in South London earn 10 pounds an hour net.
YABU unreasonable to expect her to work more hours for what is already a very low wage to live on in London

plus she gets 16 weeks paid holiday!!! I think she's on to a good thing unless i've misread your post.

Also the OP says that the nanny gets 16 weeks paid holiday a year.

I doubt it is, Dilys
44 x 6.08 x 52 divided by 12 = 1159.25
She gets 800 a month
No way is she paying that much in stoppages

X post!

plus the op says the hours are/were 40 per week plus 2 evenings babysitting a month

Really I got £4.60? Holiday doesn't count surely since the op says its paid holiday versus a term time only contract?

rough calc she is getting £6.60 net per hour, given that she is not qualified etc and is possibly able to work in those 16 weeks, I don't think it's too bad myself.

The London living wage is set at £8.30, recognising that the national minimum wage is too low to afford to live in London. Taking into account 44h a week and 16 weeks holiday you are still only paying £6 net so after grossing up for tax you aren't paying her a living wage. She looks after your children and cleans AND does babysitting. That's a very good deal you've got. Its a bit odd that you can get her to do 1.5h more a week without paying more. It does sound like you are taking advantage of her inexperience & language difficulties. If you looked at a nanny rate (albeit for a qualified person) it would probably be much higher.

she now does 39.5 per week plus average 1 hour per week sitting!

Sorry I just saw babysitting is monthly so that makes it £6.50/h. Also I see you pay her during your own holidays and when your parents visit. So only you can work out if you are paying a living wage.

I suspect that the gross hourly rate is probably around £6.50 - however only the OP can tell us what the actual gross rate is.

Can they live on the wage - are they finding it a struggle? If they can't afford to live on the wage, then they may well look for alternative work.

Sounds like you have increased the hours but not made any adjustment to the wage... no wonder she is not happy. Is she now working 8-6 instead of 8.30-6 or was the change from 9-6 to 8.30-6. Maybe that 1/2 hour extra is making a difference to her travel costs - trains for example can be more costly at certain times of the day. Has the salary changed at all since she started work (how long since she started?). Maybe she is due a pay review... even a small rise may be enough to make her happy. Could you ask her about it?

Maybe she is simply asking other people what they earn and she is finding that they get paid more than she does. However those other people may have different level of experience, may have some suitable qualifications/training, may speak various languages. Also the parents may have different jobs, may be in a position to pay more. There can be many reasons for why one nanny gets paid more than another. Ultimately I feel there needs to be an agreement between Employer and Employee about the salary - if you disagree on the salary, then the employee ends up leaving for a job they consider is better.

Are you in the UK op? I can't imagine the nanny is going to be able to get a better nanny job elsewhere if she doesn't speak any English.

If you've put her hours up by 1.5 hrs you need to put her pay up by the same amount, it's quite simple.

Are you paying her tax and NI?

regardless of what you paid her originally as long as is over nmw and you both agreed to it then no one on here can moan at you

but if you are now asking and wanting this lady to work extra hours for no more money course she will be pissed off -anyone would

she may not be english/childcare qualified but does seem a low wage for what she does

Why not have a review with her? One thing you could do is give her an increase to cover the extra hours she is working without her having to ask?

Do your empolyers use the salary sacrifice scheme? If so why don't you get her ofsted registered, use the salary sacrifice scheme then give her a pay rise that won't actually cost you anymore £ because of the scheme?

ok. Working on the following assumptions - because you haven't said otherwise! 1) you aren't paying her the extra 1.5 hours. 2) you are just asking her to do them and haven't agreed this change of contract. You haven't said you're paying her and you haven't said that the two of you sat down and renegotiated the contract.

so, assuming that -

I don't think it matters what the salary works out at, or how much holiday she gets.

You offered her a position. You offered her £X salary etc for X hours. A contract is offer and acceptance. You offered, she accepted.

You then said I want you to do 1.5hrs more.

That's not what she agreed to.

You can't make an agreement with someone and then, once they have accepted those terms - change them. You just can't.

It doesn't matter what her hourly rate is, what her duties are, how much holiday she gets, how nice you are.

You offered X and she accepted and you changed it to Y.

You can't do that.

Playing with listentotaxman.co.uk I make it that OP is paying an annualised equivalent GROSS salary of £14,300 (what she would be paid if she worked 52 weeks less 5.6 weeks paid holiday). If you take the equivalent annualised rate, then the gross hourly wage is around £6.96, dropping to £6.82 when taking in the additional hours.

So your answer is: you are paying her too little if she is live-out. If she is live-in then it is possibly OK (still on the low side for London)

Regardless of that, three things spring to mind:

1. it is totally unacceptable to unilaterally increase hours without increasing pay
2. Regardless of what she says to you, if she herself feels she is not being paid enough then unless you clear the air she will look elsewhere.
3. Whilst most of us think 16 weeks paid holiday is great, the reality is if she herself doesn't actually want all that holiday then she can probably easily find a family that want someone for more weeks a year and who in turn will pay more per week to compensate. Therefore if she doesn't herself value the holidays she will feel exploited given that she can probably earn £275 gross a week elsewhere with 6 weeks holiday versus your £200 gross a week with 16 weeks holiday (these two numbers equal to appx same hourly wage I think)

Hello all, thank you very much for taking the time to answer my post. I will think about your comments.