Petition... Nannies / Employers should agree gross salaries, like the rest of employed people in this country

[nannyl]

please sign this
submissions.epetitions.direct.gov.uk

Let's talk gross ££

Responsible department: Her Majesty's Treasury

Many jobs for nannies are advertised with a net wage and contracted using a Net Pay Agreement meaning:
dishonest employers can hide their non-compliance with obligations to make deductions on the employee?s behalf, impacting individuals and the national economy - nannies paid cash in hand cost the Treasury an estimated £57million/year
employees do not benefit from annual increases in tax and NI thresholds
the employer?s liability to the employee is variable and uncertain as the amount of tax and NI due is determined by factors beyond the employer?s control and may change without notice
This practice is outdated. We call on the government to make it a requirement a) for all jobs to be advertised with a gross salary only and b) for the written statement of employment/employment contract constructed under English law to include a gross salary or, where this is not practicable (e.g. oil industry employees working offshore), gross equivalent using a normal single person?s tax code.

Signed.

I think the issue is enforcing the laws that already exist.

People who are paid cih probBly aren't signing contracts at all - let alone what those contracts say.

very true strix

and i talk gross - have done for years

Contracts are set in law, there's a penalty for that. Talking gross isn't and it's talking net which makes it seem okay to not pay the difference because 'I want £10/hour in my pocket' says 'tax/NI isn't my problem'.

This would make it an obligation to advertise and contract a gross salary. Agencies would have to talk gross. Patents would have to talk gross. Nannies would have to wise up and negotiate gross.

It's a small change but it could completely change the culture surrounding nanny pay at the moment. If you talk gross you make it clear that tax, NI and legal employment come as part of the deal.

It will restrict CIH to word of mouth and isolate those jobs so they'll have to tell more people and the more people who know the more chance they get found out.

I mean having a contract is a legal obligation and there's a penalty if you don't.

So many people have contracts but are under net pay agreements or partly declared...

I would say the majority of nannies I know don't have a contract.

Am I really the exception?
Nanny has a contract reviewed yearly and paid through a payroll agency with the required tax and NI paid to HMRC
the penalties for not doing so are huge

I will sign

i knew a LOT of nannies a couple of years ago

many of my nanny friends are now mummies (including myself)... a few are nannies with children

almost all the nannies i know have contracts.... and i had a gross salary in every contract during my whole 10 years of nannying (which began 12 years ago).... i was certainly the odd one 12 years ago, at that time i dont think i knew any other nannies withh gross in contract, but i do now

I don't know any nannies that are unprofessional enough to work without a contract or who would be happy to not have their full wage declared in HMRC.

It annoys me that parents don't want to pay the Tax and NI on their nannies wages but I'm sure they would be (rightly) angry if their employers didn't pay their correct amount to HMRC

Signed

I've been a nanny for 27 years (with a 10 year break as a childminder in the middle) and I've not had a single job that was cash in hand but I have done the occasional overtime/babysitting that hasn't gone through the books.

I suppose it is an affordability issue for a lot of parents. CIH is no excuse but as a nanny, are you prepared to accept your current net salary as gross. In other words, take a roughly 20% pay cut?

That would be where the market would be heading if your petition grows legs. I don't see things magically improving for nannies or anybody in this economy.

why would a nanny need to accept their current net salary as gross?

They would just agree their current gross salary as gross, surely.

Would any other employess in any other industry be happy to accept their current net salary as a gross salary?

Most parents are already cut to the bone in terms of rising costs. If you think that making parents quote gross will magically leave you with the same net salary, that is a bit cloud cuckoo land at the moment, I'm afraid.

Something will give, I suspect many parents would give up work instead than work for their nanny.

Or use aupairs ...

"Something will give, I suspect many parents would give up work instead than work for their nanny"

am a bit confused buy this.

What do you mean? Nannies work for parents surely? at least i always have....

nannies arnt asking for MORE pay, just the same pay, the same way as everyone else is paid

Are we really the exception? Hard to know, in my village there is only 1 other nanny - we are both on Gross salary agreements and have a contract. We were recruited via different nanny agencies.

Maybe it's a numbers thing - the more nannies there are looking for work in an area, the more some parents may try it on and not take on their responsibilities as employers.

Gross pay may not make a difference to some... but through educating nannies and parents who come into contact with nanny agencies, or who ask advice on forums like Mumsnet, more and more nannies and parents will with luck stay away from Net pay agreements.

A nanny with a Net pay agreement, where the parents are operating PAYE would simply change to the Gross pay figure - wouldn't they?

If the parents were not operating PAYE then it would be a different matter - but agreeing Gross and then still not operating PAYE would not be any different, would it? The employer would still not be operating PAYE. Gross pay agreements won't suddenly make those employers operate PAYE.

nannyl I think what blueshoes is saying is that if you force the people paying CIH to operate PAYE and pay properly, they will not be able to afford, for example £10nph. What they will do is pay £10 gross ph, so the cost to them is the same, but the nanny will end up with less in his/her pocket.

I know a nanny who faced this choice at interview i.e. 'we can afford £100 per day, you can have £10ph CIH, or less per hour and we'll pay tax/NI'. She didn't take the job. I had a job interview where they offered X amount through the books and X amount CIH. I didn't take the job either.

nannynick I think if you're forced to agree a gross salary it will be much harder to hide the fact that you're not paying tax/NI, which will sort of force them into operating PAYE.

"Something will give, I suspect many parents would give up work instead than work for their nanny"

'am a bit confused buy this'

'What do you mean? Nannies work for parents surely? at least i always have....'

I think what blueshoes is saying is that if having a nanny gets any more expensive parents will be working just to pay the nanny. They won't do it and will give up work.

I don't think they'll give up work, but will look to alternative forms of childcare.

Or they will do what I have done. When the govt announced they were going to take my child tax credit, I decided I was through paying nanny tax. So I downgraded to an au pair and hired a childminder to do the bulk of the daytime hours. Au pairs hours are low enough I pay (virtually) no taxes. I use childcare vouchers for the childminder. The result is I pay about the same as people who pay cih, but I am perfectly legal and not dodging my tax responsibilities. So, one nanny job fewer on the market in West London.