Is there a simple, legal way of doing this?

[childcarequestion]

A very good friend and I have been discussing at length changes in her working patterns which will make her current childcare arrangements extremely difficult to maintain. She'd prefer not to use a childminder as she wants her dc (aged 6 and 4), when not in school and nursery, to do normal family things and because the childminders who we know in the area don't seem particularly caring of their mindees . She's not looking for cheap childcare, just childcare she feels happy with.

One of her dc is at school and needs breakfast, drop off and collection, afterschool care and some tea. Her other dc needs the same, but is only in school during the morning. This would be for 2 days a week.

I'm currently a SAHM and a qualified, experienced Primary Teacher and I would be extremely happy to do the required childcare. I've known the children since they were tiny and they get on extremely well with my 2 dc (aged 6 and 3).

I've no desire to register as a childminder as I would only do this for a close friend and for these children. I fill in a self-assessment for tax anyway, so it would be easy to declare my earnings, which would never exceed my personal allowance anyway. I don't want her to pay NI contributions or anything on my behalf.

Is there any simple, legal way in which I can care for a friend's dc (either at my house or hers), declaring my income, without the red-tape and paperwork? As I said, I'm adequately qualified and am happy to update my first aid certificate and CRB check.

Thanks for any advice, sorry it's a bit long .

You could work from her house as a nanny without registering as a childminder but if you were to be paid for caring for her children in your own home you need to register.

If I'm officially a nanny, does she legally need to pay NI and stuff?

I'm not looking to make any profit out of it, just to help out a very dear friend and to cover my costs (meals, trips out, etc.)

You can do it from your house if for less an 2 hours a day which it sounds like it might be more, or as another poster said you work as a nanny. Or just register as a childminder and only look after her children. Then she could use childcare vouchers if she needs to and help from tax credits. If she needs to do this and you decide to do it as a nanny you'd have to register with ofsted anyway.

Are you wanting payment and if so how much? Why are you already doing self assement tax - would you be having other income in addition to what this friend may pay you?

Simple answer I think is NO.

To be able to give more of an answer I feel we need to know about Payment.

HMRC: PAYE an important bit is the £107 a week / £464 a month figure. That is the Lower Earnings Limit for 2012/13 tax year, after which an employer has a legal obligation to run PAYE.

That would apply if you were to be their nanny, caring for their children at their [the children's] home. National Minimum Wage regulations would also apply and I am guessing you are aged 21 or over, thus would have to be paid £6.08 an hour (rising to £6.19 per hour in October).

If you were to care for the children at your home, I feel you would most likely fall under requirement to register as a childminder. Because:
You would be caring for the 4 year old for more than 2 hours a day.
You may be caring for the 6 year old for more than 2 hours a day.

I am assuming you are in England. Ofsted Factsheet: Registration Not Required

"If you care for children aged under eight on domestic premises as a childminder without receiving any payment or reward for your services. Domestic premises can be your own home or someone else?s home."

Could you meet that condition? I guess you would be wanting payment, so won't meet that condition.

"If you only care for the children of one or more friends in your own home or someone else?s home and no money or payment changes hands. Payment is defined as a ?payment of money or money?s worth? which means payment for or towards the costs involved in the childcare such as a contribution to heating and lighting, or paying for food or repairs to the place where the childminding happens."

Again it's about payment. If you are not paid, then you could care for the children but once payment is involved, then registration is probably going to be involved.

If you don't want any profit do it for free and just have her cover the costs of food/trips out etc. If you're not being paid then I don't think it's anyones business but yours.

Thanks for the replies.

nannynick - I have no other income. I'm doing self assessment as I was required to do it (because I did Usborne books) for a few years and I can't opt out now. I'm in Wales by the way.

HolyLenten - Even if my friend just covers trips/food, doesn't that count as 'payment' (as suggested by nannynick). If it means that my friend can keep her job, then I'd do it completely for free, but money is tight and 2 extra dc to feed/transport etc. would have an impact.

So, am I right in thinking that, if I become my friend's nanny, caring for the dc at her house and if my friend 'pays' me £10 a day (and I have no other income), then she wouldn't have to go through the PAYE system?

If so, could 2 hours (say before school) of it be done at mine before the 'nanny' bit kicks in. I live closer to the school and we can walk, whereas I'd probably end up driving to and from her house, with 4 tired dc .

I want to do the honest thing, but would prefer not to end up too out of pocket. As I say, I'm more than qualified and I just want to help a good friend.

I wonder if your friend had a debit card or pre-paid bank card that you could access, to cover costs, but all money is still hers, that this would be okay? I'm guessing not as you using her card would technically be fraud.

What if she covered your costs with gift vouchers for various activities, supermarket vouchers for petrol, etc?

Vouchers / gift card seems quite a good way round it. Work out how much you think would be reasonable to cover your costs then friend buys vouchers for your regular supermarket for you?

If you work as a nanny in her home she can pay you up to £107 per week without having to do paye or any tax or ni. She can leave you money on top of this to cover the childrens expenses (soft play, toddler groups, lunch out etc) and any petrol costs for mileage you do when you are taking her children anywhere.

Vouchers are still payment, if she was only leaving you money for trips this would be like any other friend of your ds who may come out for the day with you.

Can I ask where the figure of £107 comes from? Is it a standard figure or would it change as the personal tax allowance change?

It's the National Insurance Lower Earnings Limit. See the link I gave previously.

Do your own children not need some childcare. Your friend is needing 2 days a week, could you need 2 days a week - would be a good swap.

I don't think her covering just costs would be considered payment. If you're looking after them at her house then you'll all be eating her food which she buys normally anyway. She would only need to leave money to cover days out etc which wouldn't apply during term time as you'd just take them home and play there and wouldn't be everyday in the school holidays as some days you'd just go to the park etc. As it's only 2 days a week you could probably do just free things tbh.

Finally found the regulations for Wales .

But, it appears that:

1. I can 'earn' just over £5000 + costs as a nanny (as pointed out by nannynick) so would be in the clear there. Payment means money or money equivalent (such as vouchers) even if it's only to cover food/trips. It does not cover goods or services.

2. I can care for the children wholly or mainly in my friend's house, so could do the morning run from mine and go to hers for the p.m. and after school.

nannynick - I'm a SAHM so my dc don't need childcare. Ds1 is in school and ds2 will be getting early entitlement sessions. Lack of part time teaching jobs within commutable distance combined with dh irregular work patterns and travel mean that my own childcare would be a nightmare, which my friend would be unable to reciprocate. The arrangement would only be for a year.

Looks do-able. Thanks for all the help and advice, I knew that MNetters would help me make sense of it all .

My partner and I split up when DD was 3( now 11 ) . Have had two nannies during this time neither of whom ( or so I thought ) had met him as he only does alternate weekends .
2 years ago last nanny left in April as she had plans to do some travelling with her boyfriend in Australia for 6 months . We'd discussed beforehand the options of returning to her job or not . Her leaving left me to look at childcare options , cost , changed hours of cover through my own work and I simply realised I didn't need to employ or pay for the same amount of hours . She declined an offer of less hours for less pay , fair enough .
Thats the background now to get to the point .

Last weekend my DD returned from her Dad's and told me the old nanny and her boyfriend were there . He hadn't mentioned this . Daughter wasn't happy as she likes her Dad to herself . I just smiled and said o that was nice .

I don't have a problem with DD seeing old nannies ( she sees the first who send cards etc at Birthdays ) but feel really uncomfortable at this situation ? Above all didn't even think ex and nanny had each others contact details . As ex is out of the country at times working emergency contacts other than myself were friends .

Erm wrong thread Bengalcat?