Ok, we are considering a nanny.. I would love some advice

[WhiteyBaby]

We have two dc, dd 3 and ds 11mths. We aren't happy with current nursery and changing is tricky. We are contemplating taking on a nanny on a live out basis and I have found someone who I think suits. Financially I think it will end up about the same and will offer us more flexibility, I work 4 days a week and commute so it will def help.

However, I am finding the whole issue of being an employer slightly terrifying! Can anyone talk me through the legal issues that need to be considered? I m slightly freaked that we could end up paying mat leave / long term sick leave and also sourcing second child care and there is no way we could afford it. I don't want to treat someone unfairly but need to know what the worst case could be.

Also (if you are still reading) I have seen companies such as nanny tax or nanny payroll who charge for employment services.. Do people tend to use these? Ddad and FIL are bookkeep / accountant so may be able to help...

Thanks in advance to anyone who may reply!!

No advice but in exactly same position so marking space! So hard to know what to do isn't it? Mine are 3.3 and 7m at the mo'.

ski nice to have company ! I am contemplating taking on a nursery nurse that we know but obviously a new beginning for both of us. I love the idea I think in all areas except the legal issues! I have pm'd another poster from a different thread who offered advice there and will let you know if I get any nuggets!!

You will find that there is a lot of information in this section of mumsnet about employing a nanny. It isn't that complex often, though some situations can arise that complicate things - which is where having the services of a payroll provider may be of help, though if you know people who are already knowledgeable about PAYE, statutory payments and funding, then you could certainly do the payroll yourself. A payroll service will typically cost less than £150 a year, if you are wanting them to produce Monthly payslips, remind you of when to make payments to HMRC, produce P60, P45 and provide general advice.

Whilst a nanny becoming pregnant or going on paternity leave could happen, how often does it really happen? Nannies may go on long term sick but they may not get long term sick pay... many nannies only get Statutory Sick Pay. It's needing to find a temporary replacement that is the costly part in my view.

However ask nannies on here and you will find that many of us will say that we have rarely had a sick day, yet along been on long term sick, or even become pregnant (or taken paternity leave). Whilst these things could happen, you deal with it at the time it occurs, I would not worry about it now as it may never happen.

I would suggest you look carefully at the costs involved - use MrAnchovy's PAYE Calculator to get a feel for how much you will pay in Employers NI based on a given Gross salary. Calculate some likely day-to-day costs - activity budget, likely travel on duty, providing lunch and drinks.

Search this part of mumsnet using Advanced Search using keywords like Contract to find possibly useful message threads. Here is quite a recent message thread which includes a link to a contract that you could use as a starting point.

In my view, with 2 children a nanny is likely to cost a bit more than nursery... though brings advantages, like having the children's washing done and not having to drag your children out of bed in the morning.

If you are considering taking on someone who has only done nursery work before then be aware that it can be very lonely being a nanny and very full-on. A nanny does not get breaks like a nursery worker does, or backup support from others around them. A nanny is the only person there... they have to cope with whatever happens, with the children and the home. Some nursery nurses adapt well to nannying, others do not. If they have done lots of babysitting including some daytime care such as at weekends, that may help convince you that they can cope with being a nanny.

Do you work Mondays? Would you need the nanny to work any Bank/Public holidays?

The nanny is entitled to minimum holiday of 5.6 weeks x days worked. So 22.4 days. This can be rounded up but not down. It can INCLUDE bank holidays that fall on a working day. If your nanny would be working different hours depending on the day of the week, you may need to calculate holiday in Hours rather than Days. Holiday Entitlement Calculator.

Hi whitey baby, can I say that if your nanny become pregnant you don't pay maternity pay our lovely government does! you would have to pay holiday that nanny gains whilst off. So would have to find cover but would only cost what you would be paying nanny anyway! agree with nanny nick that us nannies rarely have a day off sick, usually happy with compromise of coming in if can have an easy day. Sure you can put into contract usual pay for x amount of days then Ssp. hope it works out for you.

Thanks all, am really impressed with replies and extra special thanks for pm's. I am worried bout the issue of the poor lady being overwhelmed by my two horrors though having come from a nursery environment - she knows them both well - does anyone have any experience of this?

hi again, I nannied for 2 boys I had looked after at nursery, it worked out really well. it helped them because they already knew me and also the parents too. It was my first nannying job along side a job I had seen advertised. I had no qualifications except gcse child development and parents were both doctors! They said my experience in nursery and with age group and my personality out weighed all the other candidates for job. I would say go with your instinct. I was 21 and now 15 years into nannying. it may be that she knows other nannies with similar aged children and there are always different groups to go to to meet people so she won't feel lonely. as I say it worked for me and have never looked back!

I use nannytax as I have 3 ds under 5 and don't want the stress of doing payroll etc particularly as I only get about an hour a day to myself. They have been brilliant particularly as I have had a nanny go on mat leave and I also needed some legal advice which was free.
For maternity leave the government actually pays it as you are a small employer so you are not out of pocket.
For sick leave it is something like after 3 consecutive days sick you pay statutory sick pay which is a set amount and nearer £74 a week ( or thereabouts don't slay me for not being accurate).
They send me the payslips, the tax details etc and reminders to pay the quarterly tax.
I know many people say the payroll bit is easy but I have so much on my plate as it is it was one less thing to organise and worry about!

I have had live out nannies since DS1 was 3 months when I had to go back to work. It has worked very well for us. Our first nanny was with us for 4.5 years then became pregnant. We had to hold her job open for her for the 6 months of paid leave and had a nanny on a 6 month contract in between, then as I expected nanny#1 decided not to come back and we had to advertise again. We've always operated on the basis of paying a decent wage and not getting sniffy about things like holidays, because there is a serious market for good nannies in the playground and other mums will try and poach!

Sorry I should say we live in Ireland so I can't comment on the tax or benefits situation in the UK re nannies.

Hi

I've been a nanny employer for 6 years now and would say that being an employer is surprisingly easy. If you know an accountant I wouldn't bother to pay for payroll but get them to do it, for one nanny it is easy enough.

Having a nanny is great in so many ways, specialised care in your own home, being able to do similar activities to the ones you would do if you didn't work, no need to worry about having to stay at home with them when they are ill cos they won't be able to go to nursery as the nanny will be there whatever and if all goes well someone who will start to feel like part of the family :)

One note of caution though, nannies do go sick and take maternity leave. I initially employed 2 nannies on a jobshare and they both took days off sick, not many but can still be stressful when you get the call half an hour before you are due to leave for work and you have a critical meeting! I then went down to one full time nanny (one of the original 2) who became pregnant and yes SMP was provided by the government but slightly worse off due to paying accrued leave at the end but the worst part was that I had to find cover which proved to be a nightmare ... I really struggled to find anyone willing to take on a 9 month contract. Since then she has had one protracted sick leave period and another pregnancy - again finding cover was the issue but luckily was more successful on these occasions! Also once nanny has own child there are days off at short notice for children's sickness and doctors visits. Overall I would highly recommend having a nanny but make sure you have adequate back up (or a very considerate employer) for those days when it doesn't work. 6 years on I have a back up plan 4 people deep AND a considerate employer, initially it was much harder!

Good luck!
Windy

I am not sure how you will know how the lady will get on until you try it. Though do ask her about past work, she may well have done other childcare in addition to working in nursery. Also, assuming she is the one who has suggested being your nanny, then she's wanting to accept the challenge and with luck will have been finding out what is involved in nannying, how it differs to working in a nursery. We all started somewhere, many of us went from nursery to nanny and we survived. One advantage to you is that they are a new nanny so won't be paid as much as someone with a lot of experience. Another advantage is that they may be great at organising activities at home.

Trust your instincts... as bump6 says, a lot is about the individual person, how they get on with you and your children.

Do your children attend the nursery this lady works at? If so, do check your contract to see if there is anything about poaching staff. The lady should also check their employment contract to see if there are any conditions about working for parents who use/used the nursery.

Thanks again everyone. It is someone from their current nursery and I will check the contract point. I know others have done it and nursery being managed very poorly at present so gives the member of staff lots of valid reasons to leave.

My gut instinct is that this will work for us. I think the person will be what i want in a nanny. I just need to make sure that the finances are being accounted for properly before we confirm to ensure we dont end up wildly out of pocket against current costs. We are talking about nmw for her (she is over 21) plus allowance for travel costs. I think as she has no previous nanny expereience this is fair and improves on her current position!

One more question re kitty money. What is the norm. I am thinking of circa £20 per week for coffee's, trip to soft play. We live in town so no travel costs incurred. Is this fair?

Discuss salary with her. You probably don't know what she is paid by nursery or what she looking to be paid as a nanny. As a nanny, I like to know the salary on offer before applying for a job, as I have bills to pay. She is probably the same, she has bills to pay, so will have an amount in mind that she needs to earn. It is certainly easier to increase salary over time than to decrease it, so you could start with an initial salary and increase it after probation (say 3 months), after the 1yr point, after 2yrs etc.

Kitty for activities/misc drinks - £5 to £10 per day, depending on the cost of things in your area. Soft play is horribly expensive these days, I rarely go as it can cost £5 per child in my area. Local gym's sometimes do play sessions which can cost a bit less though not that much less - though I know of one about a 1/2 hour drive from my home which is low cost about £2 per person, but then there is the travel cost to consider.

No travel costs - are you sure? One of the great things about having a nanny is that the children can do things they may not normally do when at a nursery, or even with their own parents. Such as visiting castles, museums, steam railways, beach, going on woodland walks. Children can sometimes love to see things which they hear/read about - I've had children show an interest in something and we've gone on a trip to find that thing so they can see it for real, not just in a book or on the internet.

Your nanny will also be lonely. They will need to meet up with other childcarers. So restricting them to just your town will be very restrictive, as they may get to know childcarers in other local towns/villages.

I do quite a lot of mileage... last year I did 3000 miles. I don't work in a city, or indeed a big town, so anything we want to do involves some travel... even a local toddler group in the next village is a 5 mile round trip.

I would suggest that you don't restrict travel initially and just see how it goes. All travel needs to be logged - start/end mileage and destination if they are using their own car. For travel by things like bus, I would suggest those journeys are logged - to/from, cost. It helps you to know the costs involved and also know where your children have been during the past week/month.

Hi there..

Being an employer is not hard at all, but I think I may be in the unusual position of having 2 nannies get pregnant and go on Mat leave!

Nannypaye do my payroll - they are fab, charge £169 per year and are worth every penny.

Everything else is straight forward, and having a good nanny is brilliant..

The complex bits can be:

Re: Maternity pay - a qualifying nanny gets SMP which is payable via you but reclaimable or claimable up front, so it doesn't 'cost' you anything - however, if your nanny is planning on returning after mat leave, or not sure, they accrue annual leave, therefore you have to pay 5.6 weeks holiday pay, which is payable by you and NOT reclaimable.

Also - should you have a Nanny with own Child, and agree to sign up to pay childcare vouchers out of their salary, you are up for continuing to pay them throughout Mat Leave out of your own pocket - up to £243 per month - so be aware of that (and probably don't agree to sign up the scheme, sadly).

I'm sure there is other stuff, but it's not very scary, and if you're organised and get what you can written down and agreed up front (v important) then it should work out brilliantly for you

Oh - From an employer's perspective, for this nanny, I would also only contract to pay Statutory Sick Pay (SSP), so if your nanny does turn out to be a bit hit and miss with availability, you are not out of pocket.

With other situations, you may agree to pay over and above SSP, but if you contract to SSP only, at least you have a choice.

I should have added to my previous message that for me having a nanny has been fantastic. Yes there have been the odd moment where my first nanny had problems with her pregnancy so took time off at short notice, but we had a strong nanny network of friends she had made who had had lots of play dates with my children, and who worked 3 or 4 days a week who were happy to step in at short notice. I was just about to go on mat leave myself so couldn't take much time off, and we don't have family nearer than 4 hours away. However, I do feel my children have benefitted as they have lots of playdates with children that are either my friends children, or nannies and their children that I have "approved", lots of trips to parks, music activities etc and get to do lots of fun things at home like cooking. The older ones have gone to nursery for a few hours in teh morning in term time as I felt they would benefit, and ours is a tough job with at one point 3 children under 4. My nanny is very understanding if i get delayed by teh tube or get dragged into a meeting that I can't get out of and am late home, however, I am desperate to get home for 6 to see the kids so it is a rare occassion that I am late home.

She also babysits for us and lives close by.

In terms of kitty money I leave £50 a week and a £25 supermarket voucher as she usually buys some food for cooking etc. She does have drinks and light meals on us- usually eats what the kids are having at lunch and breakfast (she starts at 7.30 and finishes at 6) and will have a tea or soft drink sometimes when out. She never abuses it and always leaves receipts. I prepay for activities such as monkey music and swimming classes etc and there is a regular weekly activity schedule for the 3 plus time just to be at home or for her to arrange playdates.

Basically the kids have what they woudl have if I was at home, but with someone else, who, whilst it isn't their mummy, clearly cares for them immensely.

I was going to start a thread on this, but I'll just jump into this one if that's ok...

How much does a nanny cost? I am going back to full time work in September when DS will be 1, I am happy for him to go to a childminder but DP is a bit nervous about it and wants me to look into a nanny. I'm not sure what the difference is for him but that's a whole other matter!

Round here (W Yorkshire) CMs are around £3 ph, nurseries around £4.75 ph. Are nannies loads more?

Thanks

Yes, a live out nanny has to be paid NMW at least. I would expect that typically nannies in Yorkshire may be expecting £7-£10 gross per hour. You then have employers NI on top.

A nanny I expect will cost you over twice as much as a childminder.

Great advice thanks. We are waiting to hear f dd1 has a pre-school place before we decide. Did a nannyshare when we were in London but we were always the 3
Days to their 5+days & 4y history so was almost like a cm for us.