Do I have unreasonable salary expectations? Calling nannies and parents in ESSEX

[ladyjulz]

Ok, this will (undoubtedly) turn into a rant, but I wanted to get the lowdown on what the average net hourly salary was for a live out nanny in essex? I know there are previous threads on this but I wanted something up-to-date.
I'm looking for work at the moment, been looking in all the normal places, Tinies, childcare.co.uk, nannyjob, gumtree etc. However, I'm really struggling in terms of salary expectations.

To give you a bit of my background, I'm 29, I've 6 months nannying experience, prior to that I had 5 years teaching experience. I've also done lots of voluntary work with children and young people over the years, and my parents are foster carers (they have been for 18 years!) meaning I've got experience with children from birth. I'm CRB checked but not ofsted registered, but would be willing to be. I am also more than happy to do additional housekeeper-y duties (cooking is my fav, but also hoovering, washing, general cleaning stuff) I also have excellent references from my previous job, which only finished because the family moved abroad for work.

When I researched average nanny salaries, it said that in the home counties, the starting salary is £7 net for someone with little to no experience. Now I know I have only 6 months experience as an actual nanny, but I would have thought that my other areas of experience would have made up for that (I've probably given more bottles and changed more nappies over the years than some mums have!) I therefore didn't think I was being out-of-this-world unreasonable to ask for £8 net per hour. I would have thought this was the going market rate for someone with background, skills, experience and qualifications.

However, I find that when I quote this to potential families, they tend to balk. I actually had one woman say 'I was looking to pay more like £7 an hour.' Another woman told me that if she was to pay me £8 an hour, I'd be earning more than she did. (well then you can't afford a nanny can you?!)

The reason I am posting this is because of 2 jobs I saw advertised recently.
The first one was for a Mon-Fri job, for 3 children under 5, 7am - 6.30/7pm, advertised as £300 per week net.

The second one was for one child aged 3, Mon+Tues 7am-8.30am, 3.30pm-6pm, Wed-Fri 7am - 6pm advertised as £500 PER MONTH (not stated if this is net or gross)

Now, with a little jiggery-pokery on my calculator, I worked out that the first job is offering a hourly rate of £5, the second one (I think) is offering somewhere in the region of £2.80 per hour.

If this is all parents are willing to pay for the care of the most precious things in their lives, no wonder they run when I say £8!

I would like to point out as a side rant that both these jobs were advertised through agencies. Surely it is the responsibility of the agency to point out to the parents that this is a totally unreasonable salary expectation for a nanny, that they need to at least pay minimum wage and for an experienced nanny should expect to pay more. I don't understand how they can advertise a job that is basically breaking the law!

I also don't know if it's even worth applying for the above jobs, as I clearly can't accept them on the advertised wage, as they are clearly not paying enough and I don't know if the parents will even be willing to negotiate up to a reasonable level of pay. Don't get me wrong, I completely understand that people have financial restrictions and with a nanny you have to pay tax and NI on top, but if you're advertising a full time 60 hour a week job, you need to be able to afford a full time salary! Surely you can't advertise for that many hours and not be prepared to pay a decent wage for them!

Really, my point was, I wanted to see what other nannies were paid/what other parents paid for the childcare, as I would really like to to get a job, but feel that some (I stress not all) parents have no idea of what the cost of a nanny is, and find it VERY frustrating that some (again I stress not all) parents don't bother to research what the average cost of a nanny is and therefore run screaming when I quote my price to them. I just don't understand how they can advertise for a nanny, yet have done no research/calculations on what the actual cost of this will be.

I really don't want to take a drop in salary unneccessarily, but would be willing to negotiate if faced with a wave of better judgement.

p.s. If anyone in the Essex/Southend area is looking for a nanny and is prepared to pay a decent wage, I'm lovely, really, despite my ranting, so please get in touch!

Hi I'm a nanny in Essex and I would say with over 7 years experience of full-time nannying, nursery experience, teaching and social work experience, qualification in maternity and sleep training - I have only just achieved the net salary of £8.50 per hour. This is my highest paid position so far and I think salaries in Essex are very low compared to other areas. I do think it's worth interviewing for positions and trying to negotiate a higher wage if you can. Good luck decent positions do come around eventually :)

Maybe look for work in the Epping or Chigwell areas instead where rates may be better.

I'm neither a parent or a nanny working in Essex - so feel free to ignore me

When I researched average nanny salaries, it said that in the home counties, the starting salary is £7 net for someone with little to no experience.

I don't know where you would have found that. I would have thought that the starting salary would be NMW which is £6.08 Gross for someone aged 21+.

Looking back in time say 6 to 7 years... I was nannying in Home Counties and had qualifications and experience but not that much true nannying experience (say a year part time, 30 hour a week, experience as an actual nanny) and I started on £7 Gross per hour as a full-time nanny. Nursery nurses working in an nursery would have been on £12-£14k per year, so say £6-£7 gross.

The first one was for a Mon-Fri job, for 3 children under 5, 7am - 6.30/7pm, advertised as £300 per week net.

So £6.16 gross per hour, if 60 hours a week, 810L taxcode 2012/13 taxyear.

Now, with a little jiggery-pokery on my calculator
Or maybe you mean MrAnchovy's PAYE Calculator

I worked out that the first job is offering a hourly rate of £5
you need to add Net to that, as I also make it £5 Net but £6.16 Gross.

If this is all parents are willing to pay for the care of the most precious things in their lives, no wonder they run when I say £8!

Maybe it is supply and demand. If there are lots of nannies looking for work, parents can offer low salaries and get applicants.

that they need to at least pay minimum wage
It does exceed NMW, it would certainly exceed it for a younger nanny.

for an experienced nanny should expect to pay more.
Yes but do the parents want someone experienced? Do the parents perhaps feel that they may get applicants who will take the job at that salary and still have some experience and qualifications.

I don't understand how they can advertise a job that is basically breaking the law!

Job 1, which is the one I looked at, isn't in breach of NMW. NMW is on the Gross salary, not Net. This is why we should not talk about Net wages... it can cause confusion.

I also don't know if it's even worth applying for the above jobs, as I clearly can't accept them on the advertised wage

Don't apply then. It is not worth apply for a job which does not pay your bills in my view. It will waste your and the parents time. You are probably not wanting to negotiate a small rise... you are probably talking a rise of several £ per hour - would that be right?

with a nanny you have to pay tax and NI on top

You don't seem to understand how PAYE works. Parents do NOT pay employee tax and NI on top. They DEDUCT it from the Gross salary. Parents DO PAY employers NI, which is calculated from the Gross salary.

I wanted to see what other nannies were paid/what other parents paid for the childcare

I can't comment on Essex but I'm in Home Counties and get a bit above £10 gross per hour, for a 40 hour a week live-out job. So I do agree with you that £6.16 is low but if parents in your area can get applicants who meet their expectations for that salary, then they can advertise at that salary.

I don't live in Essex but am a nanny employer and thought it might be helpful to comment:

I agree with everything Nanny nick has said - it is very expensive to employ a nanny and most people have had pay freezes for years now which means a decrease in their actual salary. You definitely need to think gross salary - nannying is the only job I know where people talk about net pay. The other comment I would make is that I would not think 6 years nannying is very experienced. Best of luck :-)

Hi there - I am a parent on the Essex / Herts borders. I have paid our nannies dependent on experience - our last nanny we paid approx £10.75 per hour gross..

Our current nanny has no nannying experience but tonnes of childcare / after school club / teaching assistant experience.. we are paying her £9 an hour gross initially, we may increase to more after 6 months.

No way would I offer someone with your experience £7 per hour gross.. sounds to me like you may be talking to families who want a nanny but can't/don't want to pay for a nanny...

I would expect as a former teacher you would get top rate - at least 10-12 an hour.

tbh you are applying for jobs as a nanny not as a teacher, so yes you may have teaching exp but as a sole charge nanny you have little exp so therefore you will be getting the lower end of salary compared to nannies in essex who have 10+yrs exp

the 60hr week is a low wage but maybe they actually cant afford a very exp nanny hence paying what the family can afford and its over nmw

I don't think your expectations are too high at all. I'm in the NW and get £10ph net. More for weekends. I'm a former teacher too and parents seem to like this and pay me more as a result. Try and see a few more agencies. You are fairly inexperienced as a nanny so you may have to try a slightly lower paid job for a little while. Could you travel to a different area, maybe London?

Are you a qualified nanny, or a qualified teacher? That would make a difference.

I am a parent on the Essex/london border (Wanstead/Woodford) and am currently recruiting for a part time position, £10 an hour Gross is the wage I am offering and seems to be roughly what a lot of the nannies round here get. My current nanny (who is about to go on mat leave) is paid that as are a lot of her nanny mates. Possibly higher because we are obv more on the london side of things?

Tbh teaching is very different to nannying and the skills don't necessarily transfer over, so I wouldn't offer more just because someone had a teaching qualifucation or experience. If they had a couple of years solid nannying with glowing refs and I wanted the skills a teacher could offer then I would pay a premium. Also I'd be more interested by a EY or primary teaching qualification than secondary and certain secondary subjects more than others.

Also I think you're more likely to be appreciated for additional qualifications or skills in locations which aren't Essex, like central London or overseas!

What we pay our nanny works out at £8 net. It's something like £10.xzy odd gross. Based near Katy.

I would not expect to be able to recruit a live out nanny on £7 net p/h in our area.

I am not defending the agency but they don't tend to under quote in my experience. The reality is they probably do have a handle on what the market will bear in your area.

I do think salaries near Southend will be different from those closer to London.

fraktal ROTFL "locations that aren't Essex"... no, you're quite right, we have no appreciation of qualifications or education here. We positively sneer at applicants with additional skills to offer .

ladyjulz you may find that a family with older children may appreciate your teaching skills more, as you could assist with homework, and/or perhaps provide an additional tutoring role?

Not in Essex though, we don't like learning stuff 'ere.

I pondered for ages how to say that! I would have said the same about any location which isn't central London/overseas. I should have been more precise in that it's less about location than the requirements of families you find in those locations - nannies who are teachers can command very high salaries if they're prepared to take on more of a governess role. There aren't many of those roles in Essex or Buckinghamshire, or Lancashire or Northumberland or Pembrokeshire. They are mostly found in central London or overseas because the vast majority of families in other places either a) feel they don't need a teacher/insert other unique skill here and therefore won't pay a premium or b) can't afford the premium that a highly skilled candidate feels they can command.

'you might need to travel or move' sounds a bit disheartening. I was trying to convey that there are certainly jobs, amd ones which will pay the desired rates, but perhaps the OP isn't in the right area.

Clearly the lighthearted approach didn't work

I personally think in accordance with your age/teaching background that as you said you would like to ask for £8ph i think that is very reasonable. But then on the other hand you do have to remember you only have 6months nannying experience and the other factor would be the area you live in the wage wont be as high generally that you would receive say in central London. When i first got in to nannying after qualifying and working in nursery's for many years, i still had to accept being paid the lower end of the nannying pay scale purely due to my lack of nanny experience. So it may be just a case that you have to accept the lower wage whilst you build up your nannying experience or work/move to an area where the need and wage of a nanny is higher if its something you want to continue in.

Fraktal that makes sense - I understand what you meant now... (maybe I need a bit more educating myself )...

As an aside... [can of worms opening icon]... there are a number of posts saying "teaching experience doesn't equate to nanny experience", which it obviously doesn't, but aside from the working in another person's home aspect, what additional skills do you need as a nanny that you wouldn't have acquired as a teacher?

A primary PGCE doesn't cover pre school - many teachers are surprisingly ignorant about birth to 3. Some PGCE students will never have actually dealt with a child younger than year 2 because they only have to do a ks1 and ks2 placement. They don't necessarily know ablut bottle prep, weaning, potty training etc and even if they do their knowledge may be out of date (eg prepping bottles with water cooler than 70). However I wouldn't see it in terms of skills not acquired (as a teacher probably has more skills in general, except the very early childhood development which is the foundation of knowledge for nannying) but in terms of the attitude to the job and the differences between them. It's a totally different ball game.

As a teacher you do get conditioned to think of things a certain way in terms of learning objectives and moving on to the next step, which doesn't always equate to children just being and that's important for a nanny to know and be able to encourage.

Teaching is intense, fast paced and high pressure, which nannying can be but nannying contact hours are longer and days can seem to drag a bit with 1 or 2 children for 10 hours if you're used to 30 for 7. They're just different jobs.

I like this bit:
well then you can't afford a nanny can you?!

especially when you put it right next to this bit:
I clearly can't accept them on the advertised wage, as they are clearly not paying enough

Maybe the parents CAN afford a nanny but you can't afford to BE one?

As a nanny-employing parent, the sense of outrage and self-entitlement in your post has alarm bells ringing in my head. I think you should maybe consider whether really want to work in a profession with lower wages and long hours.

op hasnt come back .......................

was wondering what salary she is on now - do teachers get paid an hourly rate? or just a set gross figure - obv if works it out on a teaching day gonna be less hours so a higher paid hourly rate iyswim

im lucky, i do get paid very well , but also have 20yrs sole charge nanny experience and excellent references plus the NNEB and i have earnt my salary iyswim

Teachers are paid a gross annual salary.

The annual salaries for teachers are sometimes lower than those quoted for nannies on this board when the nanny is talking £9-10 net p/h for a full time salary. However, teachers will have pension contributions on top of this which a nanny doesn't have - i.e. they are making some themsleves (which would come out of that gross figure) and then the authority tops up too.

Noticed the OP hadn't returned either.

The trouble with trying to work out what you should be getting based on an average for the 'home counties' is it takes in so many areas. Salaries near Southend are unlikely to be what they are in say, Guilford.

I am curious as to why she is leaving teaching to become a nanny myself...but maybe we'll never know.

I can assure you that teachers are not paid less than £10 net ph if they are on teachers pay and conditions. A new teacher is paid between £21k and £2k for 32.5 hrs a week and 195 days of the year (it is not a pro rata thing). However I have worked with a number of fantastic teachers who work a hell of lot more than that and some weaker ones who refuse to work one minute beyond that.

As a parent who has met quite a few of the later, I would worry about whether OP would be able to cope with a different reality as a nanny.

I live in essex and if a nanny could offer additional support which would save me extra tuition fees, teach the kids another language and improve elocution, I could pay more. I wouldn't not pay for qualifications possessed by the applicant which I do not consider essential for the role so that if she has secondary school teaching experience or a phd from oxford or had been a rocket scientist or corporate lawyer, it could be irrelevant for my primary aged child and SN child.

Also due to high levels of unemployment/ redundancies in this area, I have found that there are lots of ex-TAs who are willing to do the job for close to the TA rate in the area (very low) and TAs are generally more hands-on with children. I have never had a shortage of applicants and have never paid up to £7 net ph in this area.

It's all down to what the other candidates are offering. I suppose if you can brand yourself differently and make the parents understand what you have to offer for the perceived premium, you'll find a really good job. good luck.

I would start looking at jobs in London. It is outrageous and illegal to offer a job under minimum wage. My first nanny job paid £7 per hour net and that was with two years nursery experience. After 6 months I was earning £8 per hour.

also I think some parents mix up their terms in adverts are looking for an au pair or au pair plus. I once had the most fantastic 18 year old on £5 gross which was not illegal at all. she was an A level student with grade 8 in saxophone and guitar and taught the kids. She loved cooking and baking bake and was like a big sister to the dcs - housework was not as good but it was a good trade-off for me. She's gone to uni and dc2 wants to go too.

I'm currently looking and have been asked to pay £80pw, £100pw and £600pcm by the girls I have contacted so far for a live-in position. I'm still interviewing but the field is strong and worryingly asking for less compared to a year ago but like I said, considering how much we pay for private tuition, evening SEN babysitter/Therapist, cleaner and transport every week, a well paid nanny with a drivers licence could well be a better option.