Best childcare options for a commuting barrister?

[mrsmurph]

My husband and I would like to have a baby quite soon but we are struggling to think of how we could manage childcare. His job involves irregular hours and travel, while I am a barrister and although I mostly practise in London, I do sometimes work elsewhere in the South East.

Our usual pattern when I am not at Oxford Crown Court and he is not in Amsterdam is to leave the house at 7-7.30am to get the train into London from where we live in Essex and return somewhere between 7.30 and 8.30pm. Neither of our jobs really lends itself to flexible working, unfortunately.

Are there any other barristers on this forum? How have you managed your practices and what do you do for childcare? I would be very interested to know.

Thanks very much

I'm not a barrister but it sounds like you need a nanny? Or maybe two nannies, actually, as those hours may be too long for one nanny?

My old boss had a similar commute/hours and had a nanny but worked from home on Fridays so the last day wasn't a long day. I'm not sure if there would be any flexibility for you to do that? Perhaps not.

You're definitely going to need a nanny.

I don't know about being a barrister (as opposed to any other busy, travelling professional), but it sounds as though you need a live in nanny who can take the slack if you or your husband are delayed/both travelling at the same time, etc. Juggling childcare with self-employment can be very stressful unless your childcare is reliable AND flexible.....

Nanny, either daily or live-in. It is an expensive option for care for only one child (maybe you will have triplets, then it's certainly far more viable) but is often the only single form of childcare that would cover those hours.

A nanny would also help with some of the domestic chores - such as washing babies clothes. May not seem a big deal right now but the more children you have the bigger the mountain of washing.

Nanny certainly and there seem to be loads of lawyers on mumsnet - might be worth posting on employment issues area or in chat to ask how other barristers make it work

My aunt is a barrister and as her DH works in family business he takes her to childminder over the road at 9 (she leaves 6.30ish in morning) and she comes back and picks her up 3,4 or 5.

Is there any work you can do from home/on the train? Do you have to be out of the house for 12 hours a day? I'm not a barrister but other profession (now self-employed) and I now do 7.30-6.15 which is a bit easier to manage in terms of getting childcare.

Or could you move so you don't have such a long commute?

My friend is a barrister and works 4 days per week which can vary as to which days they are so she uses a childminder.

Have you considered that you wont see your child very much in the early days working those hours? I mean if you leave at 7ish and dont return until after 7 in the evening when they will most likely have gone to bed?

I dont say that to 'judge' - just you might want to really really explore flexible working options or ways you can work closer to home as to only see your child possibly 2 days a week would be very hard.

I am not a barrister - but have a job which is not 9-5. I have 2 nannies - one doing 3 days the other two

My current MB is a barrister and a single parent and she has me (a nanny) and an aupair.

I had to move out of London to afford a big enough house for a live in au pair. I really don't think it is possible to be at the bar with young children unless you have someone live in or a husband who can work from home. It caused enormous tension with my ex when he always had to be the one who left work at 5pm to do nursery pick ups or had to take time off work when our daughter was ill.

I found Judges very unsympathetic about child care problems - I rang the Bar Council at one point and was told they don't have a policy about it as otherwise some people would 'take advantage'.

If I got stuck with an Emergency Protection Order, that could be instructions at 1pm and a court hearing until 9pm. There is always a risk that a hearing could overrun. I am a single parent now so I had to have someone who lives in.

I used to work as a live-in nanny 7am - 7pm minimum for a family where the Mum was a partner in a law firm and the Dad lived away Mon - Fri with work.

Her hours were manic, 75% of the time I'd work till 8/9pm, with at least one overnight a week. I couldn't have done it had I not been live-in.

They had one child who I nannied from the age of 7 weeks.

Mum generally got home after the little girl had gone to bed.

It is doable - though difficult, I never had much of a social life but always had weekends off.

If you decide to go down the nanny route you will need to be completely honest and realistic about what the hours may be, and that they could change at the drop of a hat, otherwise you risk resentment when the nanny has to cancel her plans at the last minute.

I loved that job

Thanks everyone - this is all very helpful. I am a criminal barrister so I am in court almost every day without much chance for working from home. It looks like we will have to think about either moving house or extending our two bedroom cottage to fit a live-in nanny into it! Thanks also for the tips about recruiting a nanny.

I am a barrister and expecting my first in June. My husband works reasonably long hours and we have moved out of London so I think we will be looking for a nanny to cover 7 til 7. I do have the advantage that I do civil work though so no doubt have more paperwork and can work from home a couple of days a week to give the nanny a break from 12 hour days. I am dreading what happens when I am staying away for a week to do a trial somewhere antisocial though. To some extent you have to cross your fingers and hope for the best, muddling along... Good luck! I think we all need it. It's a great job but, as I stare down the barrel of unpaid maternity leave and the need to get back to work after three / four months to pay for said nanny + mortgage, you realise it does have its drawbacks!

I am a solicitor - divorced, live with my 2 (school age) kids. I leave home about 7.15am and return around 7.30-8pm. It's hard and the only way I can do it is by living in the same village as my parents (in the sticks, miles from my work, boyfriend and friends, but kids are settled which is absolutely the main thing). Although I pay my mother at a near-commercial rate to look after the kids (big source of resentment on my part), at least I don't have to worry on those days when something comes up and I have to stay later at work, as the kids can just sleep at her house. Recently had a 3 week High Court trial which was very stressful with both kids crying about why Mummy was away so much. I don't beat myself up too much about this because I have to do my job to pay the bills, but I'm sure if I had a husband/partner who could afford to (and was willing to) support us, I'd be a lot more guilt-stricken.

Whatever you choose has got to be reliable with your career as it is. Sounds like you need a nanny who is willing to sleep over sometimes, or the nanny + au pair option of one of the other posters. However you cut it, it's very expensive. I have a friend who's a criminal barrister and I understand it's hard to make serious money at the criminal bar these days. Have you considered stopping working during the early years of your (future) kids' lives? Or would it be too hard to break back in to working?

I earn considerably more than mrmurph so if anyone's packing in work for a couple of years it will be him! It might be worth having a serious think about actually - I suppose I'm looking at about £30k a year out of taxed income for a nanny, which will require earning £40k gross to fund... Blimey. Had not quite done the maths. That is more or less exactly what my husband earns so perhaps him staying at home for three years is more sensible than it might at first have seemed. Peppin - I am in a good set and do a mix of crime and regulatory so not on the breadline but also hardly raking it in!

Or is £30k a year overstating the salary for a live in nanny? Any ideas? I live in mid Essex.

£30k is £575pw which is a top rate for a live in - but then if you are looking at 65 hours a week it is not going to be cheap. £500pw is still a pretty good rate, which works out at £26,000pa, but note that you have Employer's National Insurance to pay which is going to cost another £2,556 so you are not far off £30k. Don't forget to factor in the cost of adding him or her to your car insurance, additional food etc. - search old threads here for more details.

And remember if you are being taxed at 40% (plus 2% NI), that £28,556 costs you over £49k - and only £20,212 of it ends up in the nanny's hands :(

A nanny is a very expensive option for one child - you might consider a nanny share.

My best friend had a baby half way through her training contract (at a well-known London firm) and found that when she went back, she was earning about £32k (gross) and paying her (live-out, amazing) nanny £34k. This is in SW London. Luckily (depending on your point of view), her DH is amazingly supportive and they take the long view rather than thinking that if the mother's salary doesn't exceed childcare costs by a long margin, she might as well not go back to work. He has a good job and earns more than her and so it works out overall. But still, very expensive!

I think if you are going to have at least one more child (i.e. at least 2) then in your job a nanny is definitely going to work out best and you just have to go through the pain for the first couple of years before it feels a bit more "cost effective". All very well saying Dh should stop working but (a) it can be v difficult to get back to work 3 years down the line and (b) all sorts of complicated relationship-dynamic issues there.

One of my colleagues in Chambers, based in Bucks, reckons you need to budget about £36k gross for a full time, qualified, live out nanny in that kind of area (she's had one for the last 8 years). I haven't got round to the sums, but off the top of my head I've a nasty feeling it works out at about £60k gross earnings (net of VAT) at the Bar (depending on your chambers rent: mine's about 20%).

We are also Bucks and I have researched live in nannies. They are hard to come by but are surprisingly not much cheaper than live outs. This seems to be because they expect to work the longer hours. Au pairs are cheaper and for me are an option for the future but I wouldn't want my baby / small children cared for by an au pair. So the qualified nanny route it is...
My DH earns less than the nanny will cost (gross, never mind net!), but we have decided it is worth the stretch of a nanny so that he can get on with developing his career. As Peppin says his concern is: what happens when the kids don't need me at home any more, but I am pushing 40.

Also, depending on the career progression DH can expect (mine is doing a career change so hopefully will start to earn more over the next few years) the career (and therefore salary progression) cost of those few years off can be very substantial.

I don't have any female colleagues who manage without a nanny / stay at home DH / full time granny care. It is very difficult to rely on child minding / nursery because not only have you got the drop off and pick up, but also we do a job where you can't take the day off because your child is sick. Clients don't seem to like finding themselves unrepresented at trial!
It's scary but I think you just have to take the plunge and muddle along... They don't tell you about this at Bar school, equally I am quite grateful I've spent the last decade in blissful ignorance.

The most useful thing I have found is speaking to female colleagues with kids. They have all found their own ways of managing, all of which are expensive! Equally I still feel privileged to do my job most of the time and do get paid considerably better than average for it!
Good luck...

ps it is worth doing a bit of saving in advance too because, depending on the amount of (unpaid) mat leave you want to take, your aged debt income can be drying up just as you go back to work and have to start paying the nanny. Equally you chambers should have some sort of mat policy and most give a rent break, so you should get the benefit of that expense being reduced for a few months.

£40k gross to fund a £30k cost doesn't sound right . It's much worse than that I think.

But I think for many of my friends it has been a false economy to think "it's not worth it, I'll give up work". Now they are ready to go back and can't get back on anywhere near the same terms. So if both of you want a long term career, I think a full time nanny is your only option. My sister is a barrister, btw, so I know what you are dealing with. She has actually managed without a live-in but has a husband who is able to be a lot more flexible than she is but if neither of you can then there aren't many options.

Blimey, good point about the aged debt. I had better start saving, I think. I suspect that the calculator I used to get to £40k gross for a £30k cost was based on basic rate income tax rather than higher rate. No wonder the only woman in chambers of childbearing age has just given up and got a job....