Term time holdays - avoiding unauthorised absence

[snowb4ndit]

Hi everyone, this is my first post so please be gentle with me. I am a mum of three lovely boys who are all grown up and I have been a teacher for 20 years including 10 as a deputy and head.

I am currently in the French Alps managing a team of nannies that care for children when their parents are skiing.

Like you I know how expensive it can be taking a vacation during the school holidays and also as a skier I know how busy and sometimes unenjoyable the slopes can be during these periods.

I am planning on moving permanently to the Alps and have been thinking about offering a service to families whereby children can attend a holiday during school term time and NOT get an absence mark in their school register. They could be cared for during the week by a qualified teacher , that would be able to tutor children in a fun way (say five half days) that would be strictly linked to the curriculum and the childs level of ability. This could be accomplished through liaison with the school, and necessary planning and assessment, crb's, risk assessemnts...etc

As already stated this is just an idea at the moment but I wanted to ask you all what you thought of it and if you were able to, would you use the service?

Please let me know what you think even if your reply is a simple yes or no.

Why would the teacher bother to liaise with you; it's just extra work for them

No. The schools wouldn't help and why should they.

Think it would be impossible to do so effectively for the range of age, abilities and needs and agree why would schools be interested in creaitng extra bureaucracy. Surely there is no point to a ski holiday where the kids are "in school" rather than otuside enjoying the snow or skiing themselves. Ofsted, crb etc are irrelevant abroad anyway.

Interesting but I suspect you'd find it hard to get your education accepted by schools in the way that "educated off site" is used for register marking eg if kids are on a music course arranged by local authority is (and I have to really push that this code is used rather than absent anyway!)

There would be no extra work for the school apart from a phone call, and taking receipt of paper work.

As a recent head teacher I know that it is a constant battle for schools to reduce their unauthorised absence. Attendance figures do in fact effect the OfSTED outcome somewhat. Many parents still take their children out during term time and this has quite a negative impact on attendance figures. If I knew a child was having ski lessons and some other 'qualified tutoring' I would be more than happy to take a phone call (discussing current levels and class topic) and recieve an email with a plan and a brief assessment. In order to avoid another unauthorised absence which would happen anyway.

In my current role I see many, many children each week, whereby parents have paid a small fortune for a nanny for the week. Nanny's are not always qualified but still plan a weekly schedule of activities all designed for children to have fun and enjoy the snow.

It is a big market without a shadow of a doubt and my idea is to improve this service by using only qualified staff who are and liaising with schools to avoid the absence figures. For the children the service would definitely not be like going to school.

But surely you'd be charging for the service, so the question is, even if you could get school approval, would it still be cheaper for the parents, or would it counterbalance the cost of going in the school holidays

Yes of course there would be a charge for the service.

It would probably counterbalance or save money I some cases (skiing is an expensive hobby), but this service would be aimed at the kind of families that would normally hire a nanny anyway.

I also have to add that quieter pistes are a major attraction for skiers not to mention safer!

I dont really see it working

You need to research what is acceptable as schooling offsite in the legislation

You say no extra work for schools but I am not convinced, plus I would want my kids' teachers to be concentrating on students at sch

Couldn't parents claim to be educating them off site then? Covering geography, seasons, velocity, languages, etc?

I can't see schools going for it, even if parents do.

Can't see the point or need really, to be honest. If the child is old enough to be at the stage of school where they need this (above reception basically) then they are going to be skiing most if the time, surely? (I have a y1 and y2 and we ski several times a year and we have mass rebellion if I suggested this!) No school is going to accept a couple of hours tutoring of a reluctant child who wants to be having fun in the snow as equivalent to being in school! You couldn't hope to replicate what every child would be doing in their school week; it would be different for each child for a start.

I can see why you are suggesting it, but I can't see it working, sorry.

Thank you for your replies, they are all very useful.

Patricia, I'm afraid you are wrong here as the childcare side of things is already very successful. There are several such companies in the resort where I am based who are all very busy.

The company I am working for has many full time bookings for children too young to ski and just as many half day bookings for those that can -The nannies either pick up from ski school and look after them pm or drop off having cared for them AM.

The nannies plan fun and exciting activities for the children and keep detailed records and diaries.

What I am proposing is not so different really apart from using only qualified teachers and liaising with schools (A phone call and post holiday records passed on) and the possibility of being an offsite education provider to avoid those unauthorised absences.

There are many parents that want childcare on skiing holidays, that is certain. But given the choice would those parents seeking childcare choose a qualified teacher that communicates with the child's school over the usual nanny that may not even be qualified?

There would be no extra work for the school apart from a phone call, and taking receipt of paper work - of course that would be a huge amount of work for any school (have you ever tried phoning a school and actually being able to talk to the member of staff you wanted to?). Why would any teacher put themselves out to talk to someone who is offering a commercial service when the parents have chosen to take their child out of their existing school . I cannot see how this would work at all.

Thank you for your comments.

I have been a teacher in inner city schools for 20 years, and the last ten years I spent as a deputy and a head. My own opinions do have some value and as I have already said, I have questioned other heads already and they have responded very positively.

Have you ever wondered how much work a weeks unauthorised absence would create for a school?

What I have actually been looking for is opinions from parents regarding the following:

helloGiven the choice would those parents seeking childcare choose a qualified teacher that communicates with the child's school over the usual nanny that may not even be qualified?hello

I do not need any advice regarding the school side of things as I am talking diectly to the school leaders.

Would the families you are talking about not be in private education and therefore unauthorised absence doesn't apply to them?
Why don't you trial it with just yourself and a few children and see how it goes.

To answer your question

No, I would not pick to place my child on a setting that was staffed by qualified teachers whilst I was on a ski holiday.

"Given the choice would those parents seeking childcare choose a qualified teacher that communicates with the child's school over the usual nanny that may not even be qualified?"

Nope. The children are on holiday. They should be out building snowmen and having fun, not doing schoolwork. I have many friends who use nannies in ski resorts, and I'm pretty sure they would agree. I would imagine their children's enthusiam for skiing would rapidly wane if they thought it came with half days of school as well!

I don't believe a decent school could possibly set a precedent by approving education being provided on holiday by an unknown party, no matter how many CRBs or whatever you have.

Agree with PH above, the school would be setting an unworkable precedent by authorising some holidays and not others - totally unworkable. Keeping holidays in term time to a minimum is near impossible and good schools are working hard to reduce lost days.

However a nanny service with some qualified teachers on staff would appeal to some parents and salve some consciences.

personally i always wanted it to be a holiday for them on or off the slopes as it was for me (when they were little i mean - they are out all day with us now!)

I can see that if Michael Gove gets his way and brings in a fine for taking children out of school in term time for holidays this may be a useful service but it does seem to be dependant on the absence being able to be classified as "Being educated offsite".

I would have thought one of the main barriers to your scheme is that paying for that sort of service would defeat the purpose of trying to save money by going on holidays during term time when it's cheaper...setting aside any issues around the children's school in their home country.

I would imagine, if you're going to make any money from it, it could even work out MORE expensive for parents than just going on holiday during the school holidays.

I am one of these suckers for an entreprenurial idea and well done for trying to think of something.

But if it were MY money and MY business, I would invest in more traditional services - for example you could suss out the quality of the ski school and whether there are enough decent teachers for children who speak the right languages etc. Many ski schools could be improved and...in a place where people come to ski...you'll always have a market for it...you'll need to hire someone to help you run it but I think it's. During the summer season you could run summer camps. I bet there are limited services for that period of time in a lot of these resorts and the local tourist board etc may be delighted to help you promote something which keeps people coming there off season.

No I wouldn't pay for this service. And I don't believe it would work either

1. The parents that would pay for this are those with money to spare - ie private school parents. They don't need to do this though because their school holidays are longer and they can always take advantage of this and go on holiday when it's still cheap (next week, for example)
2. How is a school to distinguish between people like you who are genuine and those who aren't? They won't be able to, so won't be able to draw the line between what is/isn't 'authorisable'
3. er, what happens if a family get 'authorisation' but don't bring the children in for the schooling bit? Does it then become 'unauthorised'?
4. I'm not sure where you expect these qualified teachers to come from, nor how realistically you think teachers will be able to adapt to switching form subject to subject and LEA to LEA (especially if you are planning on having local teachers). If you are bringing UK teachers in then you are going to have an admin nightmare scheduling their times and making it pay for you and them. If you are just a 'one man show' then I can't see any schools buying into your idea.
5. If you are planning on being on French side of Alps I think you will find it very difficult to establish because of French monopoly in ski resorts (they kicked out every non-french ski school many years ago and still keep them out though god knows how they get round EU legislation to do this). Am sure you will find the history if you google 'ESF monopoly' or similar.

Squiffy is right France is a notorious problem in that regard.

All depends on where you are in the alps.

Squiffy there are quite a few families at our state primary who routinely vanish for ski-ing sometime in Jan/Feb. They are using the school until 11 when all the ones who don't get into Grammar will disappear into the private sector. So that market is there. However points 2 to 5 are valid.

As a parent that uses Esprit and their snow club service for my 7 year old this would be something that I would be interested in. DD is happy to ski in the morning but she doesn't always want to ski with us in the afternoon and would prefer to be at the club. If the "teaching" was done in a fun way and she was with other children she would probably be happy with this.

The best way to communicate with the teachers at DD's current school is by email and you always get an answer: I wouldn't even try to phone them!

I can see where you're coming from with this idea, but I don't think it would work I'm afraid...

I work in the school office of a prep school, and there is no way that the school would be able to manage families using a service like this. You are right that the absence wouldn't be marked as "unauthorised", but it would also be difficult to mark it down as anything other than a holiday, because no matter how often they are being taught at the ski resort, the original reason for them being there is for a holiday. There is a code for attendance for being educated abroad, but I wouldn't honestly be able to put this in a register knowing that that isn't strictly the case.

It is also very unfair for other families not using your service - if I took my kids away and spent all day tutoring them, their absence would be unauthorised. I also agree that if children are on holiday they should be relaxing and spending time with their family, not doing "work" while their parent/s are having fun elsewhere.

Having worked in many different schools, I don't know any that would want their staff to encourage term-time holidays, and therefore would not allow them to liaise with the service.

I understand completely that it is so difficult to manage holiday costs with everything rising in price, but children really do need to be in school during term time. Sorry not to be able to give you a more positive answer as I really can see your thinking behind this! Good luck with everything :)