Should I make the leap from nursery to nanny? Anyone regretted it? (sorry long)

[bluebear]

My 2yr old dd is in a nursery 8am to 4pm 5 days a week, my ds is school age and is breakfasted and walked to school by a family member - X - (who is paid for this). My worries about the situation at the moment are that 1) I can't ask X to 'do' anything eg. check his bag is packed, he's got his lunch etc. so I have to run around and stress about it every day (she has poor english and I can't speak her language so we are kind of stuck)...also have a few worries about whether she would react sensibly in an emergency.
2) She stresses out dh when she arrives in the morning as he is trying to get dd ready to go to nursery and he can't communicate with X easily.
3) I think 5 days in nursery is a little too much stimulation for dd and she doesn't get enough time in her own space.
4) I think her speech is not as good as it could be since she doesn't talk so much at nursery.
5) We have had endless problems with potty training at nursery although she is fine with us.
6) Most days when I pick her up there are 2 members of staff and at least 12 children, often 14...and although they are generally doing a couple of 'group' activities I feel that they are not conforming to the OFSTED ratios a lot of the time.

A lovely qualified nursery nurse who knows my children really well has suggested that she nannies for us - with her little baby (her reason for not wanting to go back to nursery nursing). She is great, but I am very scared of changing..partly because of the 'hidden expenses' - I know how to calculate her net and gross pay but it's things like house/car insurance that i haven't a clue over..and partly because there is a 1 year waiting list for places at nurserys round here and so we couldn't just change back at the drop of a hat - and we couldn't afford another nanny as this one is looking for less salary so she can bring baby with her.

Someone convince me to jump!

I have sold it to dh by telling him that he won't have to get the kids up at 6.30 and can just leave them in their beds or 'jamas til the nanny turns up...so much less hassle in the morning.
Trying to think about any other benefits.....

dont forget that insetad of nursary the nanny is likely to take them to

music
tumbletots
swimming
toddler groups each week as well, and these things all add up!!!!

sounds like a nanny may suit your family perfectly! also dont fforget you will also be feeding you child (assuming thats in nursary fees) and its normal for nannies to eat lunch as well which is extra exepnse.

personally i eat all meals with my charges so u may see what she would do. Would HER baby be eating with yours? i dont know how that works, guess you have an arrangement to suit yourselves about that!

jump woman jump . The only negetive is that she will want 4 weeks paid holiday a year .Go to that nanny job site and ask them questions as to hidden extras .PS dont forget the biscuits they are very important .oh ans pps I think you job sounds great a 4pm finish how nice .

Was thinking of putting dd into a local playgroup for a couple of hours each morning if we go for the nanny option - then she will get some social time and nanny can have a bit of time with her baby - dd's 2 and a bit so will be eligible for vouchers towards playgroup from September anyway.

Yup I'm expecting them to all eat together (although baby is v little at the moment), ..and I hadn't forgotten the biscuit bill .

Mandieb- actually I work 8am to 2pm with no breaks (but I have an hour's commute and ds's school is the other side of town from dd's nursery so she's there until 4pm), it works out as spreading 4 days work over 5...my boss wasn't very happy but i was unable to get after-school care for ds..so the alternative was to resign...she caved in and accepted the hours but only for 1 year...then I have to start working something more conventional - hopefully as 'nanny's ' baby will be bigger by then she'll be happier with a slightly longer day (she's aware of my situation).

Well, I've arranged to have a chat with the potential nanny tomorrow - fingers crossed.

Nannies certainly mean less hassle in the morning and your dd will get more space and attention! But some other parts of your proposed arrangement are a bit troubling. How old is the nursery nurse's baby? Will she look after your dd and ds at your place, with her baby as well? Where will her baby be changed, fed, take its naps etc.? Will you be buying her a double buggy to use for your dd and her baby? When it's school holidays will she be expected to look after all 3 children? What happens if her baby is ill? Is she happy to take your daughter to music class, soft play etc. and interact with her while her baby sits in its pram or whatever? I think a nanny makes a lot or sense for you, but I don't like the idea of that nanny having her own child to look after at the same time. Don't let the "saving" of her accepting a lower salary become a false economy. Or make sure the financial saving is the right one - I would pay babysitting rates for this kind of arrangement. Don't pay for something you are not going to get. Are there other options? Your idea of playgroup sounds good so your dd gets some socialistion and stimulation still. Maybe your dd could go to nursery part time and you could get a part time nanny? That might work out around the same cost as having this nursery nurse full time and give you the best of both worlds. Your dd might still like the stimulation and socialisation of nursery 2-3 days per week, rather than not at all. But 2-3 days per week she has the nanny. Or given that your children are older, do you need a trained nanny or could you look out for an experienced independent child care provider (who charge less than nannies).

Oh, definitely. Make the jump. But, check your nursery contract and make sure you won't have to pay out for hiring their employee.

Benefits:
She will do kids laundry
She will cook them what you specify (and not whatever the nursery wants to provide)
You can dictate her every activity
You can have a lovely nanny diary (which my nanny can make and sell to you -- they are lovely!)
You do not need to dress them in the morning. Likewise, they can be bathed, fed, and in pyjamas when you get them back in the evening.
You can bring your childcare on holiday with you (if you wnat to).
Nanny can be home to do miscellaneous household stuff (like answer the door for important deliveries)

Oh the list goes on....

Some costs and things to consider when having a nanny.

1. Agree a GROSS wage, never a NET wage. Reason for this is that a persons tax circumstances can change and if you had agreed a NET wage, you are stuck paying for the individuals changes. You also need to work in GROSS figures when completing the HMRC (Inland Revenue) paperwork.

2. Your home insurance is not likely to change, most policy's cover Domestic Help/Domestic Employee - check your policy for details.

3. Your nanny will incur day-to-day expenses, such as for entertainment, buying supplies for painting/craft etc. Have a weekly kitty for this, agree amount with your nanny. Expect somewhere between £20 and £50 is suitable depending on cost of living in your area.

4. Transportation costs - you need to reimburse nanny for trips made with your children in their own car. Not an issue if lots of public transport around (can use Kitty for that). Approved Mileage Rate for a car is 40p per mile, so factor that in if nanny will use own car... or agree a set weekly amount (hint... this can work out cheaper).

5. Food bill will increase. You will be supplying food for your own children and the nanny plus possibly her child as well.

6. Heating/Light/etc. Being at home more, household costs for heat, light, electric etc will increase.

7. Savings can however be made, as a good nanny will bake cakes, cook meals from scratch (rather than expensive ready meals), know of local cheap or even Free entertainment for children, know about facilities for getting scrap material (useful for craft work) at low cost.

8. Local Pre-School may be an option, from the term following thier 3rd Birthday, children are funded by DfES (though a small topup fee may be payable depending on the pre-schools usual fees). Attending two or three mornings a week can help with the speech development, sharing etc.

9. No late pickup fees - nurseries tend to charge high amounts per 5 or 10 minutes you are late collecting. A nanny won't... though if you are regularly returning late, negotiate with nanny to come home early one day, so nanny gets a few hours off.

I'm sure I could think of more, but haven't the time right now. But hope that helps. There are costs involved in having a nanny, but if you think about them all before changing, then they won't come as a shock and will be in your allocated budget.

On tax side of things, don't forget about Employers NICs. NannyPAYE has a handy table to help you anticipate expected Tax and NICs costs.

2 members of staff to 12 children is not legal... ratio for children aged 2-3 years is 1:4. Perhaps they have mixed the group with older children, but even then, the ratio for those aged 2-3 doesn't change, so 12 would be just about possible (4 children aged 2-3, 8 children aged 3-5) but 14 wouldn't. I feel that minimum number of staff in a room in a nursery should be 3 - as that means there are 2 for ratio purposes and 1 spare for when something happens, even if it's just taking a child to the toilet. Roll on a change in the rules - pigs may fly first though!

A nanny will CARE for your children and form a bond with them... nursery staff change too often in my experience. So take the JUMP, could well be less hassle and a better experience all round.

Fantastic advice Jothorpe thanks! and thanks for the encouragement Uwila.

JWBells - thanks for your concern - nanny's baby is 5 months and very gorgeous - yes he will be here too - with a 4 yr old and a 2 yr old I already own loads of baby toys and all baby equipment including a suitable double buggy - During the term time ds will be in school for all but 1 hour of nanny's working day so I am sure she will be fine with my easy-going dd and her baby.
I don't expect dd to go to tumbletots or music classes or any other such stuff - I tried a few with ds and didn't feel that the child gained much from such classes - more of a social occasion for the mums...I will be happy for dd to attend the play group where they have 3 hours of structured play and outdoor toys..there is also a fab drop-in centre near our house which is free and has several activities, and we live next door to a park with 2 playgrounds. I would be happy if dd had a chilled out time, 'helping' with the baby and playing with her toys at home to be honest. Yes, there will be some occasions during the school hols when nanny will have all 3 but that's what families are like and I am sure that she can cope with all 3 and more!

Nursery plus ds's carer (to walk him to school) =£46 per day..Part time qualified nanny = £84 (incl tax for the same amount of time per day)......can't afford to employ a 'sole charge' type nanny. And sorry to be daft but what is an independant child care provider? - is it just an unqualified nanny? or an au pair?
Also, since ds has some 'special needs' - too long to go into - he is difficult for most childcarers to accept and I know that this lovely lady can deal with him and he loves her.

Think I've talked myself into it...dh has worked out that he would arrive at work an hour earlier if we do it...

jothorpe
"2 members of staff to 12 children is not legal... ratio for children aged 2-3 years is 1:4. Perhaps they have mixed the group with older children, but even then, the ratio for those aged 2-3 doesn't change, so 12 would be just about possible (4 children aged 2-3, 8 children aged 3-5) but 14 wouldn't. I feel that minimum number of staff in a room in a nursery should be 3 - as that means there are 2 for ratio purposes and 1 spare for when something happens, even if it's just taking a child to the toilet. Roll on a change in the rules - pigs may fly first though!"

But will parents be willing to pay even more than they are at the moment to cover an extra persons wage?

The nursery brochure states that there should be 1 staff to 4 children in that particular room - so they are breaking their own rules even if not OFSTEDs (room is mainly 2 yrs old, some 3 and 2 4 year olds) - when I picked up dd tonight (at 5pm rather than 4 as we had builders here today) they had moved all the children into the 'baby' room - 6 mixed age children, but none older than 2 and a half, with one member of staff..another member in the kitchen (not within sound or sight of baby room) doing some washing up.

Sounds like the nursery isn't very good. But proceed with caution. If you are unlucky like I was, you could be seeing high turnover. Getting rid of a bad nannies is a nightmare, and losing a good nanny when they move on after a few months is heartbreaking for the kids and you. "The Good Nanny Guide" which I bought 2nd hand, turned out to be totally true-a good one who stays is rare, very expensive in all kinds of ways, and I personally found that I got things done more the way I wanted them at the nursery, which was full of sensible kind people plus other kids to socialise with. If I had read (and believed it) the book beforehand I would never have taken my dd2 out of the good nursery.

My attempt to use an au pair and then a nanny lasted for almost a year, was a struggle for all but 4 months, and turned out to be irreversible. It has damaged my career my marriage and my happiness, since the nursery that SAID it would have taken dd back full time quite happily when I started my "experiment" is overnight chocca as local schools start them later all of a sudden, so none leave, and never even has the odd day at half term. I can't bear to look for anyone else or any other solution for a while, we need stability, but I feel trapped myself. None of them will tolerate a stranger in the house, even a new babysitter now, so I have no-one at all.

Oh Majorstress, you have had the worst luck. And you still sound so scarred from it.

I wish you could get a lovely nanny who would make your life easier, not harder. I too have had one or two bad apples (but not as bad as Majorstress') but finding a good nanny is such a wonderful addition to my house. I would definitely say she has saved my sanity and probably my marriage.

Thanks MajorStress - I don't know much about your situation but I hope that things are improving for you.

The nursery dd is in is actually one of the better ones in the area - it really is just the staff ratio which seems poor and that's since last Nov when they had 3 staff go on mat. leave.
I don't think I would want someone I didn't 'know' (even if I could afford them) - but I guess I am gambling as I have known this lady for 3 years now, she was ds's key worker for more than 2 of them, she babysits for us, and she is a straightforward, sweet, hard working woman...never seen any sign to the contrary.

I am scared also, that if she doesn't like the situation and resigns then I can't afford any other nanny and nursery will have filled dd's place so I will be seriously stuck. ..going round in circles a bit now.

she is perfect, so the only problem for you really is to use your knowledge about her situation-might she move on due to ill health or family problems? Is her DP likely to change jobs if she has one? What about her next child? She may say no way for x years, but the fact is many are not planned. You will be really stuck if she leaves, no one can predict unforseen changes of course, but how long has she lived in the same place and with the same situation, and is it wholly satisfactory for her? And what will you do when she or her baby have a sick day? It's always on a day you MUST be at work.

God, when I started on this thread, I was really excited. I am in exactly the same situation as Bluebear. Have moved down to North Devon, don't know many people and am working p/t. Ds x2 are in Nursery (excellent but really expensive!) and sickness of children is a real issue as nursery won't have etc and don't know too many people to help out. Money is tight and I think I will increase my hours. As i live in such a rural area, travel is always necessary and getting boys up and dressed etc is stressful, also feel guilty. For more or less the same money, dh & i have worked out a nanny could be employed f/t daily - boys could be loved and stimulated in hoome environment plus still do all activities. Had more or less decided to change to Nanny but now, what if I can't find one - what if she is nutter/mean to them, annoys me? What if ........

Copey, the best way to choose the right nanny for you is just to ask as many questions as possible at interviews, if you go with an agency they should sift out any ones not suitable for you. Even though the agency has checked references you should do so as well, then you can ask their old employers any worry questions you might have. Sometimes it's nice to even hear from the children the nanny has cared for before, I know some nannies whose charges have written references for them.
Your worries of the nanny being mean to the children etc could happen but I feel is more likely to happen in a day nursery, I have worked in one and there isn't the closeness and one to one like with a nanny, and of course there are always the 'favourite' children. And we were not allowed to cuddle the children.
The right nanny can become a friend of the family, I know that has been the case with my first employers, I worked for them 8years ago and I still keep in touch with the boys I nannyed for and now their little sister too, I was invited to her christening, and we send cards back and forth to each other, and they know if they ever need a babysitter I'm happy to help.

Copey... how about trying to find a male nanny Still a lot of What If's but at least not the 'what if they become pregnant'! Mind you, think male nannies are not entitled to paternity leave.

Copey... how about trying to find a male nanny Still a lot of What If's but at least not the 'what if they become pregnant'! Mind you, think male nannies are now entitled to paternity leave.

Thanks for everyone's answers so far - I've got a couple more questions - If a nanny uses her own car to transport your children do you pay towards her car insurance (as it must increase due to 'business' use) or is this covered in the 'mileage rate',
And what do you do about sick pay? Stat sick pay only? I would like to be able to 'ignore' the occasional day (ie. me or dh to take holiday from work to cover emergencies) but for leave of 3 or more days? What is the 'done' thing?

Thanks.

blue bear.... the cost of my buisness insurance is less than a fiver per year! therefor i dont bill my boss for that extra fiver!

some people find it free and its rarely more than twenty quid MAX!

blue bear.... the cost of my buisness insurance is less than a fiver per year! therefor i dont bill my boss for that extra fiver!

some people find it free and its rarely more than twenty quid MAX!

Wow - I thought it would be a lot more! We were debating whether to put Nanny (blimey it sounds so posh to type that rather than her name) on my car insurance rather than make her use her car, but I 'm sure she'd be more comfortable using her own...another debate over..great.
I've done a bit of searching and it seems like it's the norm for the contract to say SSP after 3 days, but in reality people try and pay more - so that's good too.
Thanks all of you.

jump! I have a nanny and its great, she does his laudry and cooking which is great plus picks up milk etc if we've run out. She can babysit so he has a familiar face and if he has a cold nursery woudl send him home while she stays with him.
PS I used a nursery over the summer last year for a couple of afternoons and yes I'd agree alot of them cut the staffing numbers drastically especially at the end of the day. i turned up to pick him up at 5.30 and there was 2 staff with 8 children ranging from 4 months (ds) to 4 years! because they had closed the other rooms to save on staffing!