CMs - discipline methods?

[Octaviapink]

Hi all
I'm sort of curious/worried about this - I had my (first) inspection on Monday and during it my 3yo hit my 18mo mindee on the head with a toy block. He cried briefly, and I comforted him and gave her a timeout in another room (I only use timeouts for violence, nothing else). She squawked in protest - he pointed to where she was and said her name - but then came back in after about a minute, apologised and gave him a kiss. All fine, I thought.

Inspector came down on me like a ton of bricks - inappropriate methods of behaviour management, impacting on minded child, all kinds of stuff. I'm fairly horrified/baffled - I don't know what to do differently. If I'd had my wits about me I'd have asked her what she recommended, I was just so aghast at having got it so wrong. Do I need to go on a course? What do you do??

I also got yelled at (figuratively) for not recording it in my accident book but that was a mistake - I've only been doing this for six weeks and didn't realise such small incidents needed to be recorded. I do now!

Sounds fine to me. Ignored child with naughty behaviour and comforted other child. What else could you have done?

Maybe leave dd for one minute for every year she has been alive (so if 3 its 3 mins) say to dd "sit there and think about what you have done" does not need to be in anither room, the same room as you is better but in a place away from toys then after 3 mins make her kiss/cuddle injured child. If your dd attempts to stand up within the 3 mins do not speak to her or make eye contact just sit her back down in the same spit as before and go back to play with the other children. It will get easier when its not your dd but another 3 yr old as your own children do play up for their own parents.
I used to say i might get a cm fir my boys so i can cm in peace

Thanks for that mop. Yes, my two were both a nightmare while the inspector was here, though I was expecting that to a degree. Much more all-over-me than they ever are usually!

It is a bit rubbish if they condemn it but don't give any guidance on better methods.

I don't use time out just as a personal decision (am not a CM) and I would have said something like "Hey! 3, we don't hit, that isn't nice." and explained that I would have to take the bricks away if they couldn't play nicely with them. If the 18mo was also playing with the bricks you could remove the bricks and the 18mo)

I would also have found out why the 3yo hit, guessing that in this situation it was frustration that the 18mo didn't understand or was taking the bricks she wanted, etc. So I'd tell the 3yo that they must come and tell me if the younger children are not playing nicely, and I will sort something out (probably separate piles of bricks for each child). We'd also have a talk about how little ones don't understand about towers and they just want to knock them down, and suggest that perhaps she could make some towers especially for the little one to knock down.

All good thoughts - thanks Bertie. Unfortunately in this case DD simply doesn't like mindee and I'm constantly running interference.

Apart from putting the child in another room, you did the right thing. You must record every incident or accident, even if there's no mark/injury. Did you discipline the 18 mo when he pointed and said her name.

That's quite understandable :) She's 3 and presumably has no siblings (you don't mention any?) so she's had your full attention all this time and suddenly has to share it. That's going to be hard for a child of that age, so you will probably have to overcompensate for a bit until she adjusts. Keep reassuring her that you are her mummy and although this other child (possibly children) are going to come in during the day some/all days it doesn't mean you love her any less. I'm guessing you've bigged up to her the plus points of having another child to play with, so also perhaps she is finding it extra frustrating if the younger one can't or doesn't want to play with her.

The book "siblings without rivalry" is excellent on managing conflicts between children, although she is not a sibling, it will still be similar as she is having to share her things, share your attention etc.

Could you get your DD to pick out some special toys she doesn't want mindee playing with and put them in a special place? Plus although you need to keep things age appropriate, try to make sure you are treating them both the same, so as littlewillows said you should probably just say to the little one if she is pointing at her "That's not kind" etc.

Make sure you spend some one on one time with your DD at weekends/days when mindee is not there too and if possible make sure they can play separately if needs be when she is there. Another thing which might help is to make teatime a special family time if mindee does not share it with you, or if she does or your DH is not home by then perhaps do something in the evenings with all 3 of you, just a short ritual even if you just make you & DH a cup of tea and she has a biscuit and glass of milk and sit down together and share your news from the day. This would be a good time if/when she is at nursery to show an interest, ask who she played with, if she did anything fun, etc. Then at bedtime you have a great one-on-one opportunity to kind of "debrief" the day, if there were any squabbles bring them up in a non judgemental way, ask her how she felt, see if you can come up with some constructive ways with her of how to deal with them in the future. And remind her of the good things too like "Wasn't it fun when we fed the ducks all together? You were really good at sharing the bread." Perhaps asking her for help at times and praising her helpfulness will remind her that she is your big, responsible girl.

I think that having to watch constantly for damage control is probably quite normal at this age and stage - and redirection is the key for trying to manage it because if you come down hard with discipline it will just reinforce to her that this new child is more important than her and that you don't love her as much any more (which of course isn't true at all but may be the way she sees it. She will get round this but you probably need to give her lots of love and support to get there. :))

Totally agree Bertie, also I think u acted appropriately, no one has all the answers when it comes to discipline, we all do it differently, time out, naughty step etc, inspector sounds a bit of a bully herself tbh and if course you can disagree with them, it's your business( literally as a cm) and its your house.

I have been inspected and disagreed with a point made by my inspector , she backed down immediately, helped that I was at least 15 years older than her and have 4 Dcs of my own.

Stand your ground.

I guess I'll see what her report says! littlewillows he was simply asking if that was her making a noise in the other room (so far as I comprehend him - he has no real words yet as English is his second language). The inspector said that it could have a bad effect on him seeing another child have a punishment.

I think you should contact Ofsted and get this in writing - both their objection and what they recommend you do instead.

This is just a difference in parenting approaches - so parents don't do time-out, so do. So long as your behaviour wasn't abusive (emotionally or physically) then I doubt there is an official Ofsted line on time-outs.

So a child shouldn't be punished because it might have a negative effect on another child!!!!

Silly silly stupid cow!!!!!

Let's just have a free for all them, no rules, no consequences, no discipline.

Personally I would have told her where to get off but I would defiantly write to ofsted a d I form them of her behaviour and views and common about her attitude.

Total nonsense!!

Sorry complain not commen

'Unfortunately in this case DD simply doesn't like mindee and I'm constantly running interference.'

Sorry, but that made me ! I briefly left my (usually very gentle) DD with a new-ish mindee when she was 2.5. I came back to find her sitting on the mindee's back (he had been crawling before DD flattened him). I was obv horrified and asked what she thought she was doing and she said 'I was trying to ride mindee!' The things they think of to do!

I do use 'thinking time' on occasion (it depends on the child and what suits them - some really need a cooling down period - and what trouble they've got into). Usually for a minor altercation (that happen all the darn time some days!) I'd remind them that 'we do gentle touching' and hold their hand, gently forcing encouraging them to stroke the injured party softly to reinforce what I mean. Then quickly redirect - so 'Oh wow, can you help me build a HUUUGGE tower, that would be fantastic!'

So hard for you in this situation though - as if you hadn't dealt quickly and firmly with your DD then you could have been criticized for that by the inspector too!

Do you have a behaviour management policy? Positive behaviour management is best when possible - where you give lots of praise and try to ignore/re-direct low level bad behaviour. Whatever you decide you should be doing, write it in a policy and have parents agree it, then you can justify what you do to Ofsted with confidence.

Although sometimes discipling children, younger ones need us to say " That's not nice", so older children are aware that discipline is for everyone. But I am sorry! as I've simply misunderstood and I would like to wish you all the very best.

ive been told that ofsted dont like cms using time out

You need to be more aware of positive behaviour management.
What you do with your own children ie time out is totally up to you but even the term 'time out' is not an accepted term by agencies you may have got away with it if you had called the time out 'time for thinking' or a 'thinking area'.
What does your behaviour management policy say and did you stand by what you have written.

Mine have thinking time in the room, but each child might have a slightly different approach depending on their character. My policy reflects this.

The inspector should have given you some ideas.