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Discuss everything related to paid childcare here, including childminders, nannies, nurseries and au pairs.

Calling Tanith...

24 replies

BoysAreLikeDogs · 05/03/2012 13:09

Tell us more about your recent training session and EYFS

(felt it warranted it's own thread)

OP posts:
Are your children’s vaccines up to date?
looneytune · 05/03/2012 13:12

Oh I'm so pleased you started this. I just came on to see if there was anything more on this, pleased there is a new thread for it!!

I'm due my inspection in the near future and am interested to know how much of the obs etc. they will be interested in after hearing about that training!!

Tanith · 05/03/2012 13:43

Wow! Never been called to a thread before Grin

I'll pop back later tonight and tell you what was said, promise!

BoysAreLikeDogs · 05/03/2012 13:45

okey dokey

(am off sick today, MNing from my bed)

Hiya Looney x

OP posts:
looneytune · 05/03/2012 13:54

Look forward to the update. I'm just about to have lunch after a surprise visit from an old mindee of mine! (2 at nursery, 1 napping......just in case anyone wondered what I'm doing on here! Wink)

'Hi' back BOYS :)

HSMM · 05/03/2012 13:55

Waiting for Tanith's wise words with bated breath ...

Octaviapink · 05/03/2012 16:55

I've just had my first inspection and would like to hear too!

Tanith · 05/03/2012 21:01

First of all, an apology. I should have realised that you?d want to know a bit more about the EYFS training I did at the weekend, I just didn?t think to go back to the other thread. I hope you haven?t spent the whole weekend in suspense.

Secondly, a disclaimer. This was what I picked up from a course put on by my LA. It?s completely different from what they?ve previously told us. They wasted hours telling us how to complete learning journeys and trackers, and how to do observations and assessments. Now they?re telling us we don?t need all that. The question is: were they wrong then, or are they wrong now?

The EYFS is changing, ladies and gents. It?s not changing very much in its content, though. You may already know that the areas of learning are being changed. We were told they are being reduced from the 6 areas to 3 prime areas: Communication and Language, Personal Social and Emotional Development and Physical Development. However, there are also 4 literacy, mathematics, expressive arts and design and understanding the world ? sound familiar? Wink

Now, when I went to school, 3+4=7. I?m pretty sure they also taught us that 7 was greater than 6. Not according to the new EYFS: the areas are being reduced and, when you look at the areas, you realise that they are just the same as before, except literacy is now on its own as one of the 4 specific areas of learning, and the 3 prime areas are being given more importance. It was that sort of day, really, where we were sure we remembered being trained on the EYFS, they were now telling us it was changing but, hey, it still actually looks the same in a lot of ways Confused

Now the paperwork, which is what we?re really interested in and where the real surprises came.

We should only be recording and documenting in order to support our knowledge of the child. If we?re likely to forget something, if it?s significant, if we need to clarify, that?s when we write it down. Otherwise, there?s no point and we?re wasting our time.
Assessments are for our use. If we aren?t using them in our work ? and we don?t have to so long as we can otherwise support our knowledge of the child ? we should not be doing them.

We were given the usual lists of recording methods such as photos, post-it notes, learning journeys, observations etc. etc., but we were told we should be picking and choosing those which will work for us: none are compulsory.

I was so flabbergasted, I asked specifically and had it confirmed:

Learning journeys are not compulsory
Trackers are not compulsory I?d go as far as to say they?re not even recommended. This one, I suppose, we should always have known because it does say repeatedly in the EYFS that it?s not to be used as a tracker or ticklist. Quite why so many LAs, including my own, thought it necessary to waste all that money by producing their own version of trackers, only they can say.

I?d have thought I was dreaming, or in some caffeine-induced hallucination, except that the most recent inspections I?ve heard about from some of our new childminders have all reported the same thing: they are doing too much paperwork and it?s not necessary.

Now, whether they are right and we?ve never been required to do all this, or whether they are now doing a huge backtrack, I?m not quite sure. I remember, when the EYFS came out, thinking it sounded quite good and a million times better than the rigid Foundation Stage. Then I attended training by the LA and read books and articles, going through it all and the list of paperwork requirements got ever longer and I thought I must have misunderstood.

We are not meant to be working late into the night or taking days off to complete paperwork. If we are, we?re doing too much.
We were encouraged to go onto www.foundationyears.org.uk for the latest information on what?s happening with the EYFS.
We were recommended to go onto the OFSTED website and read what OFSTED ask their own inspectors to look for here

Inspectors are interested in how well we know the children and how provide for their needs. They want us spending more time interacting with the children and less time on paperwork. That seems to be the message they?re trying to get across now.

Whether that message will change in a few months time, I don?t know.

Tanith · 05/03/2012 21:03

Waiting for Tanith's wise words with bated breath ...

Oh, please! Blush Blush

Tanith · 05/03/2012 21:12

Oh, and can I also add that I'm highly suspicious of the wording that Sir Michael Wotsisname has used: it seems contrived. Call me cynical, but I do wonder if the "less paperwork for childminders" and the "OFSTED dropping childminders because they're not doing the EYFS properly" might be linked in some way.

I even wondered if they're thinking of subsidies for nurseries and this might be an excuse for not subsidising childminders, but that's total speculation on my part.

BoysAreLikeDogs · 05/03/2012 21:16

oh my word, Tanith

You must have been BOGGLING at your course, at the trainers

Thankyou SO MUCH for coming back and updating us

I must admit to wondering too, whether Michael Wotsit is gearing up to drop kick us off the edge, ho hum

I'll have a look at those links now

many many thanks my dear x x x

OP posts:
HSMM · 05/03/2012 21:46

Thanks for that Tanith. It was worth waiting for.

Tanith · 05/03/2012 23:19

No problem! I'm just sorry I kept you waiting for it. Stupid of me Smile

Octaviapink · 06/03/2012 07:15

Can't wait for the new system, in that case - my paperwork got slated at my inspection yesterday despite the hours and hours I've spent on it!

anewyear · 06/03/2012 07:38

Same as, Octavia.
My 2nd graded inspection is now a year over due.
I will quite happily wait till end July for mine before calling them!!
All my minded children will be 5 and over and no longer under the EYFS by then Smile bad CM that I am!!

Tanith · 06/03/2012 08:38

Take care with that, anewyear. Just had a childminder graded inadequate that never looks after children below Y1 because the inspector insisted that summer-born Y1s are still under the EYFS in the autumn term.

Octaviapink · 06/03/2012 08:53

Just out of interest, how do you guys meet other CMs? All my children (two of mine and one mindee) are under 3 (eldest is 2.8) and we don't go to toddler groups and stuff. You talk about a network, Tanith - how does one find such a thing (I've only been doing this for six weeks so it's all quite new!)

anewyear · 06/03/2012 09:10

I thought it was EYFS until the 31/8 after their 5th birthday?
I dont really think much of the way Ofsted grade people either, or should I say the way each inspector seems to have their own agenda as to what we should/should not be doing!! can you tell Im bitter..lol

To be honest I really dont want to CM anymore, I would like my house back IYKWIM, especially now my own 2 are that bit older, 13 & 10.
But can see me minding for at least a couple more years, certainly not taking on any more children, as I work in Pre School during the day and only have after schoolies now..

anewyear · 06/03/2012 09:12

Octavia - Im lucky in the fact the village I live in has several minders and we talk and help each other out..
I dare say there is some back stabbing, there always is in a small is community, but I could nt give 2 hoots .. Just let them get on with it.

anewyear · 06/03/2012 09:19

Tanith - Work is slow round here at the mo, wasnt when I 1st started but is now, and working in pre school during the day I cant/dont want to take on any EYFS children,
I have a satisfactory grading at the moment, If they were to grade me inadequate, any idea what that would mean?

thebody · 06/03/2012 10:35

Wow, very interesting, of course all child care providers are doing far too much paperwork and tick boxing, that's obvious to all of us, kids should be doing what kids do, play, without having every bloody move assessed and observed.

However I don't think this means that powers that be have actually recognised this fact and are being sensible, this is a back track and it's about excluding and downgrading cms( Michael wotsut) and nanny state shrinking child care choices to parents.

thebody · 06/03/2012 10:37

Octavia, havnr u got a network coordinator,here they run groups for cms to meet?

Tanith · 06/03/2012 11:00

Anewyear, yes that's exactly our argument and it does specifically say when the EYFS stops, so no excuse for misunderstanding. Thing is, another childminder reported the same thing in a different area.

Completely forgot! Oh, you'll love this! We were told to challenge inspectors if we didn't agree with their interpretation and report any problems at inspections!
Again, previously (now tell me if this was your understanding, too) we were told no use challenging inspection reports, they never change their minds, best to forget and move on.
Now, they're saying it is worth challenging, it's all taken on board, OFSTED are listening to us and it's the only way to get rid of the poor inspectors. I nearly choked on my coffee!

There was nothing said about inspection outcomes and what will happen afterwards. Perhaps they haven't worked that bit out yet :)

We will need to do this short development report for 2/3 year olds but they said they'd train us on that later. They made it sound simple enough, not more than a page with a few sentences for each area.

Octavia, I'll reply in a bit: day off today due to poorly, whingy toddler who is demanding attention now, poor baby Sad

Octaviapink · 06/03/2012 11:48

It would be quite nice if they actually talked to the people at the sharp end (eg us) and asked about what we think would be useful things to measure!

anewyear · 06/03/2012 17:35

I had occasion too and did question an inspector (& Ofsted) the actions she gave me with re to a parents concerns.. Safe guarding team were brought in also..
The inspector basically told me that I had to keep the children within sight at all times!!
I asked her how I was to do this, she said I had to!! She would send me my actions and I had to reply to them saying how I would do the above with in 14 days.
Worried sick doesnt discribe how I felt.
Two weeks came and went I received nothing, so rang Ofsted to ask why and to also ask where in the statatuory guidance it says we have to keep children within sight at all times. I was told the inspector would get back to me.
Well she did, and casually told me with reflection, she had changed her mind, and the action's would no longer have to be met!! Nothing would show on my report!! there would be a letter in the post!!
I very calmly told her how worried I had been over the last couple of weeks, she really couldnt understand why I felt as I did.

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