Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Paid childcare

Discuss everything related to paid childcare here, including childminders, nannies, nurseries and au pairs.

Original poster

Quick question- do I have to pay my CM for her to attend a funeral. Not a family members.

33 replies

yelnats · 04/03/2012 20:55

Basically what it says on the heading. Do I have to pay my CM for her to attend a non family members funeral? She has given a weeks notice. She says due to pay for it as it comes under 'sick day' which per contract would normally be paid.

OP posts:
colditz · 04/03/2012 20:56

no, child minders are self employed. Funeral is NOT sick day at all and she is taking the piss.

workshy · 04/03/2012 20:58

sick day and compasionate day is not the same at all

would you be paid at work for going to a non family funeral because I wouldn't

she is taking the piss so it depends on how much you like her

RandomMess · 04/03/2012 20:58

Agree with Colditz.

Civil Service - generous I think with regards to bereavement, paid time off for bereavement only includes immediate family.

HSMM · 04/03/2012 21:03

She could book it as holiday. Does your contract say you have to pay for holiday? She's not sick, so why would it be sickness?

Original poster
yelnats · 04/03/2012 21:21

Contract states have to pay her for holidays or sick days but I can't find anything on compassionate days. My guess would be like you all saying that not due to pay her. I don't get paid for funerals, but then again i don't get paid for sick days either.

Thinking I should maybe ask her to point me to that part of the contract? I don't see why I should pay, fair enough if it was a family member but it's not.

OP posts:
mopbucket · 04/03/2012 22:15

You pay her for sick days Shock

thats so shocking!!!! If she is sick then cant do her job = no pay

ElizabethDarcy · 04/03/2012 22:53

As a CM I am shocked! That (a) she is paid when she is sick, and (b) she thinks she should be paid to attend a funeral. No way.

ActiveC · 05/03/2012 00:24

As you say the contract specifically stipulates full pay for holidays and sickness, REFUSE to pay. If your CM was smart, savvy, they should have told you they were sick.

south345 · 05/03/2012 05:01

There is no set rule as to what she should/shouldn't charge for, each cm
is different but i think she's taking the piss a bit charging for her sickness and to go to this funeral.

HSMM · 05/03/2012 07:15

As your contract states you pay her for holidays, I don't understand why she didn't just take a day's holiday for the funeral.

Blondeshavemorefun · 05/03/2012 08:39

Going to a funeral is not being ill so no don't pay her

Most se people don't get paid holidays or sick pay but you agreed to her terms when signing contract

Out of curiosty why did you agree to the above ?

thebody · 05/03/2012 10:33

I had to attend a funeral in Friday, I took the day off but wouldn't dream of charging parents. I had to have a week off after an emergency situation involving dd. couldn't give notice and all parents were fantastically supportive, so I am now giving each parent one weeks free holiday( not charging them).

I respect them and they respect me, team effort, sad your cm doesn't see how much better her business would be if she worked this way.

Riddo · 05/03/2012 10:36

I get paid for when I work. I don't charge for my holidays or when I'm ill. CM's are self-employed, I would never expect to be paid for attending a funeral.

phunkiephedora · 05/03/2012 11:06

I work with another CM, we don't charge when our service is unavailable. Our view is that the parent will have to pay childcare to someone else and it would be unfair to make them pay twice!
We work out holidays etc a year in advance and give these out to parents so if we can all work together the parents don't get charged if they take the same hols as us.

We don't charge when we get sick - fortunately with 2 of us together we can cover each other.

With regard to your situation the funeral is not a sick day. You have two options, one to explain to your CM that you feel this is inappropriate as you have to take a days unpaid leave or pay someone else to cover.
Option two is to come to a compromise and offer to pay half rate.

I would go for option 1 as she is definately not ill so therefore, under the terms of your contract then you don't pay.

mrsbigwobblybottom · 05/03/2012 16:18

My CM has never had a day sick so if someone died and she wanted to go to the funeral I would definitely pay her. No question.

But i wouldn't expect her to ask for it or expect it. And it is certainly not a sick day. It's compassionate leave.

if there's nothing in the contract that talks about compassionate leave then you don't have to pay it but if you value her and she doesnt usually take any sick then I would pay her.

ChitChatFlyingby · 05/03/2012 16:40

How much sick leave and holiday leave has she allowed in the contact? If Sick leave is open ended I would be reviewing the contract now! I also don't agree that this comes under sick leave (disagree with paying for sick leave anyway, but as you've agreed to it that's neither here nor there).

TBH something like this would make me a bit Hmm about her as a CM.

MrAnchovy · 05/03/2012 17:27

The terms "sick leave" and "annual leave", "compassionate leave" - in fact anything with the word "leave" are only appropriate in contracts of service i.e. employment contracts. A childminding contract is a contract for services and the equivalent term is "unavailablility" or "closure".

Since a major review of contract terms, the NCMA now advise childminders not to charge when their service is unavailable in most cases: "If you are suddenly unable to care for the children for any of your own reasons, such
as a bereavement or illness, you should not charge.", although they remain ambivalent on paid holiday (but not Bank Holidays: "Payment can only be charged if you are willing to work the Bank Holiday.").

The meaning of the term "sick leave" has been defined by the courts to mean absence due to incapacity through illness or injury of the individual, and does not include attendance at a funeral or anything related to somebody else (e.g. caring for a sick child).

Original poster
yelnats · 05/03/2012 20:10

Thanks everyone! I'm going to go right over the contract and then probably tell her I'm not paying. It's not a lot of money for the afternoon but more the principal of the matter. I would not hesitate in paying her if it was a family member or a friend but as far as I know it's an old friends family member.

OP posts:
BackforGood · 05/03/2012 20:27

What Mrsbigwobblybottom said. I'm AMAZED at the lack of compassion on here! Maybe I've had particularly good CMs over the years, but IME CMs are so rarely off 'sick', if my CM ever felt she needed to go to a funeral, then of course I'd do whatever I could to accommodate her. Docking what I pay her each week or month would never enter my head! Shock

I'm also amazed that people think you can somehow "rank" the closeness of a person by if they are a relative or not. That means, I could be given time off to go to funeral of some elderly Aunt or Uncle who I might not have seen for 2 years, but not to attend the funeral of my best friend. Some people have some strange ideas on here.

geraldinetheluckygoat · 05/03/2012 20:37

I agree with Backforgood. Do you like your childminder? Does she do a good job of looking after your child(ren)? Does she take a lot of time off sick or do you feel like she generally takes the piss? Do you know how close she was to the person??

BTW, everyone, it is a childminder's right to charge for holidays/sickness if they so wish. As long as they clearly state this in the contract, and at initial meetings, then there is nothing outrageous about it. Most childminders do charge for both holidays and sick days round here. There are precious few perks in this thankless job.....

OP if it's not a lot of money, and you like and have a good relationship with her, I would pay it, or risk souring the relationship. If she charges for holiday anyway, she will probably just take it as such if you refuse to pay.

10miles · 05/03/2012 20:41

I was all ready to tell you to stop being so mean (per BackforGood) you don't have to pay her, but if she's generally reliable and good at her job have some compassion and pay her. But, as she's taking the P by telling you you have to pay her, no way!

BackforGood, you're absolutely right of course, the loss of a friend could be harder than losing a distant relative, but IME paid leave, in a "normal" job is only granted for the funeral of a very close relative, spouse/parent/sibling. Aunts don't count.

ChitChatFlyingby · 05/03/2012 21:15

Mean? Why on earth would it be mean to not want to pay? Mean would be getting huffy about her wanting to take time off for something like this!

My CM would probably have asked if I would mind using those hours up another time rather than her not earning as much that month (I occasionally asked for additional afternoons, or to have my DC a little later than usual).

thebody · 05/03/2012 22:36

It's not about lack of compassion! I am a cm and my dd was injured in the recent school coach crash in France. I had an unplanned weeks leave to care for her and a day off for the teachers funeral. My parents were without exception fantastically protective of me and dd. but I have already reimbursed them even though they didn't want or ask me too, it's a question of me as a responsible small business owner wanting to offer a professional service.

It's one thing for parents to offer support but another for a cm to demand payment for a day off.

thebody · 05/03/2012 22:38

Oh and one parent insisted on giving me half pay for the week so I am not charging her for an upcoming holiday.

minderjinx · 05/03/2012 22:56

Hope your dd is okay now thebody, and you too. What a terrible experience for you.