Is my nanny doing too much

[Mposh]

This is also on AIBU, and posters suggested I post on here :

Sorry for such a tediously long post.

Our nanny has been with us for 4 months now. I originally advertised for a nanny/housekeeper. When she started she was doing so great over and above expectations, we gave her a very good bonus for xmas as well as some lovely xmas gifts as she spent xmas away from her family.

Over and above looking after DS1 who is 4 goes to nursery till 15h30, there is DS2 who just turned 2. I am also 8 months preggers. So we advertised for someone to look after 3 kids just so they are well prepared. We have a cleaner coming in once a week for about 4hrs.
The housekeeping duties for the nanny include :

• Making the kids beds and tidying room
• Folding kids laundry (I put it in myself, as they may not read washing instructions). Whatever needs ironing, the cleaner will do.
• Tidy up after kids
• Bath kids
• Cook simple dishes, if I don't. and supervise eating
• Put up blackout blinds in kids room
• Emptying the dishwasher (somehow, I hate this job myself, and always delegated it, previous AP did not mind as she never cooked, but ate and felt she could do this)
• Take out bin when full.

She did almost all this at the beginning and told me she was a good cook and offered to cook a few meals for us - which we told her were excellent. Though I cook most of the time, as I appreciated this to be an extra for her - though I did mention cooking in advert and JD. She no longer cooks. Always puts chips and nuggets in the oven cause the kids are refusing to eat veggies, even though I told her to put cheese, ketchup etc. in it just to get it down them. The other day I asked her to boil rice and make a pork for me as I had to urgently go to hospital with pregnancy issues ( and hit and run, another long story - it's not my month), and would not be able to cook. It was 16h00, but she said she did not want to burn the food as she has to look after DC at the same time and may burn the food - this was for her to cook for DC as well. Then yesterday she said she does not like cooking since she moved out of her parents house. WTF? She was cooking fine for the last 3 months, as she would give DC a task and cook while looking at them from the kitchen. I also have always been able to do the same. But I decided not to push this, as I would rather she looks after DC first.

For the past month she :

• Goes to the gym in the morning and comes back around 8h05. I had told her DS1 has to be up by 8 in order to prepare for school. Nowadays both kids get up at 7h00. So by the time she comes back from gym, the kids are dressed and eaten. She then leisurely takes a shower and takes DS1 to school. According to the JD, the job hours start at 7h30, even though DC were waking up later, but I said she may empty dishwasher at this time and make them breakfast, so it's ready when they do wake up. If she is fast, she could shower at this time and have breakfast her self. Our previous AP did that, or showered at night. She insists on gym in mornings rather than evening cause she says it gives her energy.
• Does not empty the dishwasher. But she has all the time between the 8h05 and 8h45 when DS goes to school. She then takes DS2 to babygroup/park/play directly, even though they start at 10h00/10h30 mostly, and have no real entrance time. To me she is avoiding the dishes so I have to take them out. She is not forgetting, cause she will put dishes in the sink when dw is full, even though I told her I hate a sink full of dishes like a student digs.
• She does not take out the children laundry and fold it. I have been helping her with this since the beginning, but now she leaves it completely.
• Does not make the childrens bed and take down blackout blinds. I have always helped with this too, but made it clear it's because she is getting used to kids routine.
• Does not tidy up after kids. Puzzles are all over the house as we speak. Also does not wipe after kids eat, so their table is always grotty. Also I clean up after bath, always have and did not mind.

While I was happy to help here and there, her heart is just not in it at the moment. I find her also very forgetful and does not listen to my instructions. Told her to always take her phone, oystercard and some cash with everytime she goes out as I may need to contact her, she may need to hurry home and take a bus (we buy her monthly buspass), or need to enter somewhere needing cash - which she takes from the kitty money. She always forgets these things -even though one of the presents for xmas was a handy small wallet to fit all this. A few days even forgetting the keys and had to get security to open. She then leaves lots of glasses and dishes all over the house, as she could not be arsed about taking away after drinking or eating. Other day DS2 unrolled toilet roll on the floor of bathroom, she could not even pick it up and put it next to the sink where there is lots of space.
At interview I said I was anal about keeping clean - am not really, just tidy, and she assured me she was too. A month in, her room looks like a bomb went off. I asked if she is happy here and with the work and also at home things are ok. She said all is well, and just blamed sloppiness on a cold/headache/ sickness etc. Now the cold season is over, I see no improvement. I wonder if someone advised her to just look after DC, not housework too.
I have already silently fumed and decided that if all she wants is to look after DC, I have to agree. But am upset, cause that was not the job I advertised - I said housekeeping too (which is not too much by my standards, as AP did all this, -but had 1 child to look after) and that is what I am paying for. Also quite annoying as am tired beyond belief with pregnancy, school search etc. at this stage.

Am having a 121 with her on Monday and I expect she will say the work is too much. She is generally a nice girl and gets along famously with DC, so don't really want to let her go. When AP left, friends recommended two girls, to temp with us while we were looking, who each stayed with us for 6 and 3 months respectively, before moving on (they were not real nannies). So don't really want to parade lots of nannies for the DCs.

Am SAHM for now, doing freelance now and again - less now with pregnancy, and always let the AP/ Nanny do as she pleases like an adult and not look over shoulder. Friend warned me that naturally if I am at home, the nanny will just decide to cut off some work for me to do, as it may look like I'm just on the computer all day. My sore back is preventing me from leaving the house all the time to some cafe, also they are not here most of the time anyway, so I get to get on with research then.

If I agree with job descrp. cut, can I then postpone DS2 entry to nursery which was supposed to be next term. I will look after DS3 for the first 8 months or so as he will be too small. I still will want a nanny to help with the other two , what with sleepless nights and all. Was hoping this one was a keeper, so I could look at changing careers, doing courses, but don't think that will happen.

Which battles to fight? and what should I let go?

Don't want to be too harsh. She is human afterall.

It sounds like although you were clear with the job description before the nanny started, maybe the boundaries have become a ?grey? where you are helping out or picking up the pieces when she doesn?t carry out a task.

I would dig out the job spec before you have the 1-2-1 so that you have it to hand to chat through exactly what is included and what duties she agreed to carry out initially.

All of the duties listed are standard for a nanny (?Making the kids beds and tidying room / Folding kids laundry (I put it in myself, as they may not read washing instructions - Whatever needs ironing, the cleaner will do) / Tidy up after kids / Bath kids / Put up blackout blinds in kids room / supervise eating?).

Even cooking healthy meals for the children is a common part of a nannies role, as is batch cooking healthy meals for the freezer (which could be very handy when the new baby arrives!).

The only aspect that may fall into the realms of a housekeeper is emptying the dishwasher and taking out bin when full. Although in my nannying days, I would have done this to keep the kitchen area functional.

However, It sounds more like the role is for a mothers-help. Many nannies struggle to stay motivated when a parent is always at home ?helping? ? maybe this is the problem?

I think that it is important that the nanny adheres to the duties you both agreed at the beginning - i don't see why you should let anything go.

Be very clear on working hours and duties so that she knows what is expected of her and takes ownership. If you give an inch she may start taking a mile? (e.g. supposed to start at 7:30am but not actually starting until gone 8am).

I completely understand that you don?t want to have lots of nannies coming and going as it could be disruptive for your son, BUT there is also no point papering over cracks and reducing the nannies duties to suit her change in motivation... In the long run, surely you won?t be happy and it will be very difficult for the working relationship to last?

I have put a post on the other thread, but basically she has an attitude problem IMO. She also apparently has a pretty serious problem with organisation and planning and doesn't care enough to do anything about it. All the agencies we have used would agree with me, I think. I have categorised the jobs below according to whether they are normally considered part of a nanny's role or not (aka nursery duties).

---

1. Making the kids beds and tidying room - Nursery duties
2. Folding kids laundry (I put it in myself, as they may not read washing - nursery duties, including washing it to your instructions, and ironing it.
3. Whatever needs ironing, the cleaner will do. - nursery duties
4. Tidy up after kids - nursery duties
5. Bath kids - nursery duties
6. Cook simple dishes, if I don't. and supervise eating - if this is for kids, nursery duties, and most nannies would cook a bit extra for parents as well. Nannies often also shop for the children's meals and prepare things for the freezer as well, such as purees and occasionally spare portions of shepherd's pie, muffins, etc.
7. Put up blackout blinds in kids room - nursery duties
8. Emptying the dishwasher (somehow, I hate this job myself, and always delegated it, previous AP did not mind as she never cooked, but ate and felt she could do this) - technically a nanny/housekeeper duty but many nannies do this routinely in the morning.
9. Take out bin when full. Ditto.

Nannies also: clean, dust and hoover children's rooms and bathrooms, as well as playrooms, shop for and mend children's clothes as required, create dressing up outfits for world book days and parties, take kids to hairdresser and playdates as requested, pack for children's sleepovers and holidays, and other do simple things to make the lives of the parents as easy as possible, within reason (eg pick up dry cleaning when driving past anyway, post the odd letter if out and about and likely to be near a post box, put away a supermarket delivery).

A nanny/housekeeper would also do parental washing and ironing and clean the house, as well as more cooking, but only if there was enough time while the children were out at school.

You have what is known in the trade as a pretty poor nanny and you could do a lot better than this. Can you let her go? You don't need this stress when you are having a baby.

It sounds like she has lost motivation. How much are you paying?

What has motivation got to do with leaving your glasses and cups strewn around the house????

No wonder you feel upset

she is not doing the job you advertised / pay for.

I think a serious chat is necessary.... she does all the things in job description ... or you give her warnings and let her go

Im sure there will be plenty of nappies happy to only fold laundry (not wash / iron) and cook your children nice dinners

and so what if the children "dont like" veg? They arnt going to learn to like it if she doesnt serve it to them will they?

Definitely get her starting work at 7.30am, (ie dressed / showered and ready to go) as per contract... not going out earlier and arriving 35mins late .... if she wants to go to the gym, then she needs to go earlier and get back in time & have shower ready for work.

I'm sure they're paying what they said she would be paid when she agreed to take the job and signed the contract.

What has motivation got to do with leaving your glasses and cups strewn around the house????

Have you ever met a teenager?

I'm sure they're paying what they said she would be paid when she agreed to take the job and signed the contract.

I'm sure they are, but motivation doesn't come from a contract.

Mr Anchovy, She is getting paid the standard London rate for live in Nanny/Housekeeper. Am I expected to just increase every 4 months? If she gets demotivated every term, should I keep increasing?

As I have explained, we did reward motivation over xmas by gifts and bonus, but she should be reasonable. I was expecting the next 'show of appreciation' to be around her birthday later in the year.

Anyway, how do I justify an increase with the current attitude to work ?

Nothing that she is doing justifies any sort of pay rise. Don't pay any mind to that. She accepted the job knowing what the job description and pay on offer was.

Have the 121 you suggested but - make it clear it's a serious chat about what needs to improve, not an informal 'catch up'. She sounds like she is operating quite casually, informally with you. I would even print off the contract and go through the duties part of it. If she does say it's too much work, I would say this is the job description and the terms and what would she like to do. Would she prefer to give you notice and look for a more suitable position?

There are plenty of girls out there who might want the work. Please don't worry about finding someone.

I haven't suggested anything.

The going rate for a live-in nanny capable of looking after 3 children including a newborn in central London is £400-£500+ gross a week (£520 a week average if you believe the NannyTax survey). If you are paying her this sort of money then you can reasonably expect her to show an appropriate level of commitment.

Or resign in a professional way if she is not happy with the terms and conditions after taking on a job. She can't just decide herself that she is going to start work half an hour later because she feels like it.

"She accepted the job knowing what the job description and pay on offer was."

"There are plenty of girls out there who might want the work."

These are not valid arguments - they apply equally to illegal sweat-shop labour or any other position of exploitation.

Equivalent valid arguments could be:

"The job description is reasonable and and pay on offer is appropriate."

"The position and pay is attractive to appropriately qualified candidates who are well-informed and not economically distressed."

It doesn't sound to me like this girl feels particularly disempowered if she is doing the things that the OP describes.

A sweat shop comparison isn't relevant either.

You seem to be assuming the pay is unreasonably low - we don't know that.

Perhaps I am assuming that "The job description is reasonable and and pay on offer is appropriate."

So, let's wait and see what the OP comes back with.

Well upon reading your OP I would say that she's not doing enough. Your expectations are pretty reasonable, especially for live in. The kitchen duties might be seen as outside the scope of a typical nanny but I take the view that if they live as part of the family then they can take on a proportion of the chores. Plus I hated bins and dishes when I was pregnant so would have no hesitation handing that over in your situation!

If the pay is appropriate for the duties expected then no reason to increase. Instead a formal ish chat, pointing out that when DC3 arrives you will definitely need her to be doing all her job, is in order. Settling a new nanny will less hassle than micromanaging a slacker.

I'm inclined to hazard a guess (without info about pay, let's assume it's fair) at the nanny being complacent. Certainly if she started out doing all the (IMO reasonable) duties, and has now decided that she can swan off & leave other people to rouse, feed & dress the DCs when she's meant to be on duty, she is swinging the lead. Maybe settling in well has lulled her into a false sense of security? I think pointing out her change in behaviour and going over her duties again is definitely in order.

Actually, I'm wondering if the nanny had much experience before this job, as finding time in the day to empty the dishwasher / knowing how to straighten a duvet really ISN'T the sort of thing you'd expect someone experienced to need their hand held through... OP said she helped with a lot of things that the nanny has just stopped doing - it needs to be made clear that these are HER tasks and they're expected to be done.

"It doesn't sound to me like this girl feels particularly disempowered if she is doing the things that the OP describes."

It's interesting that you say that - although there isn't a lot of detail, it seems to me that this could be describing exactly the kind of passive-agressive behaviour that is associated with feelings of disempowerment.

Oh, in my experience of the world of work that's what people do when they don't like the job, agreed, but don't much care if they lose it. Maybe she thinks she could easily find something similar/better.

Unless she is being paid less than minimum wage, she needs to get on and do her damn job, the lazy cow!

My boss is currently posting about me in AIBU. Get that lazy cow off Mumsnet. Maybe my boss is Mr Anchovy.

why havent you sat down and spoke to her/given warnings and then sacked her??

yes we dont know what you pay her, but she agreed to do a job for a wage and isnt doing it

How long was probation period?

Reversed Hawthorne effect?

It seems you both are no longer happy to help out.

Time for that 1-to-1 chat

Definitely have the 1 on 1 as you have mentioned, start off with the positives (i.e. we love that you get along so well with the children, and in the beginning you were doing all the organizational things brilliantly, etc) and then ask her if she has anything she'd like to say BEFORE you go into the negatives of the last X timeframe she's been slacking off.

How long is it that you've been at home versus how much time did she have as a sole charge nanny? A LOT of nannies prefer to be sole charge rather than having a parent in the house, hence the taking DS2 straight to park/playgroup from dropping DS1 at school rather than trying to dodge the dishes, I would suspect.

You are 8 months pregnant and surely as a qualified (is she?) or experienced childcarer, she will realize that you need to be doing less work around the house instead of more in preparation for DC3. I would be worried that she'd continue to slack on her duties when DC3 arrived and you'd be feeling very resentful of having a slightly messy house while trying to care for a newborn and she is out having fun with DS2 for most of the day because she can't be bothered to do her nursery duties.

I say all this as a previous nanny, this sounds to be like a case of either demotivation from the job itself or an adverse reaction to you being a stay at home mother. Remind her that you will be there 100% of the time for at least the next 9 months and ask her if she honestly, truly is happy for that to be the scenario she works in. Give her a friendly but firm warning, wait 2 weeks to see if things improve, and go from there. Good luck!