Nanny 'v' Nursery Dilemma

[larlylou]

I currently send my ds (3 yrs) to Nursery (has been going since he was 5 months) and my dd is due to start next month (she is 6 months). I am quite happy with the Nursery but the expense is so vast that it seems unjustified for me to work (I only work part time). I was wondering if there was any feasibility in employing a part time Nanny term time only. I don't know if this would work or not and am only looking into it at the moment but thought that the price I pay for Nursery we could put towards a salary instead. I would love for some feedback as to anything I should consider, the pros and cons and whether it would be of interest to Nannies? I think my dd would benefit from that one to one a lot more and my ds would attend the local pre-school. I thought a Mum who already had children at school would find this appealing. I am aware of references and police checks that would need to be done. Does anyone have any experience regarding Nursery to Nanny?

We went from nursery to full time nanny as i hated leaving the kids at nursery for so long. It has overall been a very positive experience, but you need to find a nanny that you feel really good about. You might well find an older ex nanny with kids of her own who would like the job. Our current nanny has been with us 4 years and is fab. Both our boys also went to pre school and it was a great mix, they are now at school and both nanny and I are in the office most of the day

I loved having a nanny, and dd blossomed under her guidance. It was a tremendously positive experience for us.

Two things I would point out in response to your post - IMO, you won't find a nanny for term time only. But, someone else here may have a different experience/knowledge. Secondly, you will need to calculate the nanny's salary plus tax and national insurance on top to get a true idea of the expense. Once you know that figure, you can decide if it is actually cheaper than nursery.

Good luck!

Rubbish, nannies work term time only. Perhaps consider trying to find a nanny with a child of their own then you don't have to pay so much (nanny share) and your children get other children to play with.

Like I said....someone here may have different knowledge/experience!

Nannyjob.co.uk is a good site for info, and an idea of what the going rate in your area is. Also just because thats offered doesn't mean you have to pay that much, nannying is the same as all other jobs, you have to negotiate pay and conditions.

Thanks for the feedback so far. My ds is happy at Nursery but the staff have changed (especially in the baby room) and I'm not as keen on them (gut instinct but can't give any reasons why as they haven't looked after dd yet!) But, I do think my dd would benefit far more from that closer personal contact that she would get from a Nanny and the benefit of being in her own home and surroundings. Obviously we need to look into the finances a lot more but if the pro's outweigh the cons and we feel it would work out better for the children (and us) then we would consider it anyway I think.

I know it is probably going to be hard finding someone who would do term time only but even if it was a Mum with a young baby then I'd be happy for her to bring her baby along also or, a Mum who has kids at school already and would like the holidays off

Larlylou, your gut feeling about nursery changing is something that happened to me too. Ds's nursery was excellent, felt entirely confident about him being there, until suddenly staff started to leave. It got to the point where he was so unsettled by staff changes and room moves he started to get really miserable about going. Very upsetting for all of us. So I switched to a nanny (his old keyworker, who was leaving) and it has been excellent. Ds is soooo happy.

You do have to factor in tax, NI, sick and holiday pay on top of basic salary. And have a back-up plan if nanny is ill. And take on the responsibility of being an employer. But definitely worth it if you can find the right nanny.

I used a nursery (for 1) then a nanny (for 2). Life with a nanny is lovely, and costs (for us) about the same as nursery for 2. So much nicer - if they're still in pjs / having breakfast etc I just leave them to it. I can (by prior arrangement) work longer / different hours. She does kids laundry, washing up, makes formula up, changes beds etc, she feeds them what I'd like them to eat, and takes them on great outings (ducks, park, soft play, theatre, zoo). She takes DS1 to morning preschool, and DS2 to toddler groups. She's just moved from a nursery, and says she loves being able to give my kids lots of attention and do things with them. Other advantage is she looks after them if ill if nec.

When interviewing, I met a couple of nannies with children at school - one with teenagers she wouldn't bring, but she'd have been pleased to have the school holidays off. Another who needed to bring her 6yr old in the am and then do his school run, but she'd have used the after school club for him on the days she was working for me. Schl hols I think she'd have been stuck... Both were qualified experienced nannies.

Cost-wise, we found a big range depending mainly on experience.

work out what you would pay them a week . Then times it by how many weeks a year they would work and dived it by 52 and thats a weekly wage .might help working out tax and insurance , And by the way as a nanny with my own child I have been doing it for 22 years I would love a term time only job ,I have only in the last two weeks come out of nannying to work in a school as I feel my son whos 6 needs me even more and I want to spend holidays with just him . So you will find someone ,

if the nanny is self-employed, you wouldn't have to consider tax or national insurance would you?

Squeakycat - what a positive response from you. I am getting a good feeling about going from nursery to nanny. Of course, it does depend on whether financially its viable (of which my dh and I will sit down tonight and work out) but its definitely something I will look into seriously I think. Its just a question of finding that right person who would fit our spec as, like some of you say, it may be hard to find a part-time term-time only nanny. Here's hoping!

if there is a q of nursery v nanny then nanny wins, no question, for all the reasons already stated plus more. also look on gumtree.com - post an ad saying you want eg term times only and see what comes back. good luck!

Let's talk pay - we live in Somerset. I have absolutely no idea about pay but my dh and I have been working out some figures and I wanted to see if they sounded reasonable to those who have nannies. It would be for two days a week 8-5.30pm. We worked out that it would be better to pay an annual pay so that they would get paid monthly which would mean that the nanny would be getting a wage over the holiday periods also. So 8-5.30pm Wed & Thurs for £288 per month (8 days work), working out to be £17,500 per annum (gross). Does this sound reasonable, too much or too little? With regard to duties, would I include it that they do other 'kids' chores as well as look after the children or would I be expected that they are there just to care and feed the children?

Another question - sorry for being a pain in the butt. What 'hidden' costs are there. I understand that I would have to pay mileage if I didn't have a car for them. There's the Insurance that you'd have to pay for (employers too I would assume), they would eat with the kids but additional food isn't too much of an added expense (especially only for two days). We wouldn't have to pay for holidays as they are paid for already (she would only work 39 weeks of the year but paid for 52). Anything I'm missing?

biscuits and lots of them

think I might be able to manage the biscuits...oooh, that's cheap and easy then if its just biscuits

Re wages, the best thing to do is to ring a couple of local nanny agencies and ask them. there was an article last week on nanny pay in the times. London nannies now earn up to £28k! but it was a lot less out of town 18k ish I think.

Yours sounds pretty reasonable for what you want. Our nanny is paid a frightening amount, but she is very experienced and we are very near London

Mommie, you can't have a self-employed nanny. If they are your nanny, you must pay NI and tax for them. I think there used to be a loophole sometime ago which allowed a way round this but has now been stopped.

Larlylou, other costs to think about might be the annual cost of a nannytax service if you chose to use one (you can do the paperwork yourself should you so choose - depends on how organised you are!), slightly higher utility bills if you need heat and light during the day that might not otherwise be used if your children are in nursery and also some additional costs for outings or extra craft stuff that nursery would otherwise supply.

mommie.... its illegal for a nanny to be self employed (technically illegal for the EMPLOYER to employ a nanny and not pay her tax/ NI etc!)

(unless they are only doing temp work or working for lots of families.... as a maternity nurse may for example)

The law changed on 6th April 2005 and you can now be fined up to £3000 if you are a parent who does not declare that you are employing a nanny (you need to pay your employeRS contrubutions as well!)

as for a term time only nanny, im sure a nanny with their own child may jump at the chance...

Not sure your 'typical' young 20 something nanny could afford to only work part time tho!

I think its definitely worth looking for a nanny, as im sure SOMEone would LOVE the job you describe!

I think nanny wages are very local - you need to speak to a local agency. I pay 300 pw for a live out nanny, 7.30 to 6.00 4 days plus 7.30 to 12.30 one day (ie 4.5 days a week). She is NNEB, 29, has been with us for 3.5 years and looks after 3 children, soon to be 4. (She is going up to £320 pw when this one is born but I haven't told her yet). I could pay less for one who is younger and less experienced but still very good. The thing about the country is there are fewer straight nanny jobs around - lots of NNEBs are working in nurseries and would rather work in a family - so you will probably fill it quite easily. hth

apart from tax other expenses are minimal, light heat etc is irrelevant when you cancel it against the cost of driving to nursery for example.

she'll need cash for outings etc, will eat lunch but really there is nothing else. tax and NI is the killer but you have to pay that

I wasnt joking about the biscuits ,this is a serious need for nannys (LOL)

Costs:
Pay - watch out - nannies quote pay per hour NET, you have to pay GROSS + employers NI. www.nannytax.co.uk has a table to convert net wage per week to gross wage per week. If the nanny has no other work, then the whole of her personal tax limit applies, and there is less tax to pay. Round here nannies were asking for £5 to £7 per hour NET. We couldn't quite afford the top end nannies, BUT if they were in nursery, they'd largely be looked after by the more junior staff anyway. Our nanny may not be completely perfect, but I am SO pleased we have her - she's great - really attentive, unflappable, full of good ideas. And DS1 was getting really poor continuity in his nursery we never knew who was supposed to be looking after him.

Hidden costs - I was comparing having a nanny with me staying at home, so the extra costs were:
agency fee (we didn't pay one, but could have been approx £400)
car insurance (depends on car and age of nanny - we allowed £250/yr - we insure nanny on our car as I don't use it to go to work - if using her own, allow 40p/mile, plus you provide the car seats)
nannies lunches (food at home or out for nanny - ours brings a packed lunch, but we allowed an extra £5pw for a 3 day week which is a bit OTT) also at the moment your kids food is included in their nursery bill, but if at home will come out of your shopping bill)
extra activities (nanny typically does a little more than I would in a typical week - allowed extra £5pw. Obv compared to nursery where there are NO extra activities, you could be paying out more to take them swimming / soft play / farm park or whatever - but clearly the kids benefit from going to whatever)
nanny use of phone - I give mine a £5per month allowance for use of her mobile while working for us
Christmas bonus / presents / b/d presents etc - I allowed £150per yr
approved childcarer fee £96 per yr - we pay this, but as we get the tax-free vouchers it saves us £2000per year
NannyTax to do payroll £150 per yr (get rebate as they file on line)
plus I added in my costs of getting to work / work clothes etc as I was comparing with not working at all.

I allowed for £1400 to £2000 extra hidden costs, but in fact it's probably nearer £1000 - car ins being the biggest (I have a big car).

Hope that helps.

TBH, my job can be quite demanding, I have some extra personal stresses, and DH is rarely here to help in the am. There is NO WAY I could be getting the two of them ready and to nursery in time to get myself to work. I couldn't cope, and take my hat of to those who do.

An additional advantage is if your local preschool is a feeder for primary school then your elder is getting to know his school friends, and also if you want to use extra sessions there for the days yr not working, it's the same place for him IYSWIM. IME, sessional preschools have a nicer atmosphere and do the 'early yrs education' thing better than daycare, but that may not be usiverally the case.

ALL nannies I interviewed had worked in nurseries and said they prefered nannying as the
children got more attention.

This is my own exp, and I know people are happy using nurseries.

sorry - tediously long and x-posted with other people.
Hope it helps a little...