Calculating holiday for a PT nanny

[TwigletMonster]

I've calculated a pro-rata holiday entitlement for our PT nanny - she does 2 days a week. It works out at 11 days/year, including bank holidays (based on the statutory minimum holiday entitlement).

We agreed that we would allocate 50% and the nanny would allocate 50%.

But, I've come unstuck when it comes to bank holidays. As our nanny works Mondays and Tuesdays, then a total of 5 'working' days this year will be bank holidays. So, in line with our allocation above, should we take 2.5 days from our allocation and 2.5 days from her?

That would mean we are each left with 3 days to allocate. Crikey. That's only a week and a day each.

Am I doing this a silly way round?! Is it normal to include bank holidays in the statutory allowance, or should they be in addition to it? In my head, I feel like she's being penalised for the days of the week that she works.

I don't get paid for bank holidays, by the way. Help!

11.2 days, you can't round down.

When you are doing a 50:50 choice arrangement it is usual to deal with all bank holidays first and then split the rest 50:50. For a full timer this works out as 8 bank holidays and 2 weeks choice each.

With someone only working 2 days a week including Monday, this is not going to work: there are simply too many bank holiday Mondays. I think that you are going to end up with you choosing 2 weeks in the summer so with that and the 5 bank holidays that is 9 this year, and her only having 3 days choice to make 12 in total.

Statutory minimum for a 2 day week is 11.2 days per year - you can round up to 11.5 or 12 but you cannot round down.

It would be quite usual to take out the number of bank holidays that fall on her working days and divide the rest. Bit of a double whammy for you as you don't get paid for bh's. Do you have to work them or do you get your 11.2 days to take at other times?

Ok, so it worked out at 11 as she started this year part-way through January, so it was pro-rata for the working days, and pro-rata for the starting date.

I don't work bank holidays, and don't get paid holiday. I'm a contractor so I bill on a day-rate for days attended on site. I don't have an issue in paying the nanny for bank holidays when I don't get paid.

So, are the options:

1. take out 2 weeks for us, the 5 bank holidays and leave the nanny with 3 days
2. take the bank holidays out first, leaving 6 days. Then divide the rest so 3 days each.
3. Divide the whole lot, so we have 5.5 days each. Take 2.5 bank holidays off that, leaving 3 days each. Actually, that's the same as number 2.

Still

We always did as mr anchovy said. What does she do for the rest of the week? Does she have another job? If so she is likely to want to match up her holidays with you, with her holidays with them.

Ok, so it worked out at 11 as she started this year part-way through January, so it was pro-rata for the working days, and pro-rata for the starting date.

So the holiday year start date is defined in the contract as a date different to when your nanny started working for you... is that what you are saying?

If not... how is holiday period defined in the contract/written statement?

As far as I am aware, the holiday period would start from the date their employment began, unless it says otherwise in the contract.

I feel you need to deal with the 0.2 of a day. If it turns out that you don't need to deal with that this year... you will need to next year, as that holiday year will run the full year.

You may not be thinking this far ahead but you may want to keep in mind that some bank/public holidays move Day.
1 January 2013 will be a Tuesday (new years day)
28 December 2015 will be a Monday (this is the substitute day for Boxing Day)
25 December 2017 will be a Monday (xmas day)
I don't think there are any others that move over to a day your nanny would be working (Monday or Tuesday) but do check.

If you decided upon 3 days. Your nanny decides on 3 days. Then you add in all the bank and public holidays. Then the total number of days off each year would be what? I think it could vary year to year. I think some years it won't be enough... as it may be 11, not 11.2

What if you rounded up to 12 days... then did 4 days nanny choice and the rest all your choice. That way nanny gets 2 weeks of choice (if they decide to take Mon & Tue off in the same week on both the weeks they choose). You then choose all the Bank/public Holidays (assuming that you don't want your nanny to work on a bank/public holiday) plus then additional days to make it up to 12 days in total.

Nannynick - I don't know about nanny contracts, but most contracts generally would state that the holiday year is 1 Jan to 31 December (or some other set dates). It doesn't normally start from the start date or a company with lots of employees would have lots of different holiday years and it would all get very unmanageable. A standard template would probably follow that convention.

Twiglet - bear in mind that, if you wanted to, you could agree that some days of bank holiday are unpaid. You are right that a part timer working Mondays has disproportionately little holiday to choose. You could agree, for example, that bank holidays are unpaid and the 11 days of paid holiday is for other days. Of course, that depends on what works for the pair of you... So long as you give enough days of paid holiday, you can agree what you like. Likewise, you could agree that she takes those days paid, but makes them up working extra days at other times - again, if that happens to suit you both.

Maybe this could be looked at another way around.

When would you (TwigletMonster) not want your nanny to come to work? Do you for example always go away during the summer for 2 weeks?

Are there any particular days/weeks when your nanny does not want to work? Maybe they also want to go away for 2 weeks in the summer.

Would you ever need to work on a bank/public holiday? Maybe your nanny would not mind working those on occasion?

50/50 I don't see working. Whilst you may get close to that, getting it exact is going to be tricky, especially if your nanny does not choose any bank/public holidays as part of their choice of days off.

I don't know about nanny contracts, but most contracts generally would state that the holiday year is 1 Jan to 31 December

Nanny contracts generally don't. Most nanny employers only have one employee so it is common for the holdiay year to start on the anniversary of employment. However what 'most contracts' do is irrelevant - either the OP's nanny's contract states a holiday year or it doesn't (in which case the default is the start date).

Twiglet your first option adds up to 12 days so should be:

1. take out 2 weeks for us, the 5 bank holidays and leave the nanny with 2 days

But if you've already agreed 50:50 that wouldn't be fair. I think you need to talk to her and ask what she thinks that means and come to a fair arrangement between you.

Right then, I've looked into this a bit more and think I've got an answer.

So, the pro-rata holiday for someone doing 2 days per week is 11.2. Because the nanny started this year, in January, i worked out that the part-year allowance is 11.

I think the approach should be that, as the nanny works 40% of the available days, she gets 40% of 'normal' holiday and 40% of the bank holidays. This works out at 8 days holiday and 3.2 days bank holiday. Working days are irrelevant. If the nanny also worked for another family (she doesn't at present) she would get that percentage of holiday and bank holiday, eventually totalling 100% of bank holiday if she worked 5 days.

As it stands, she works Mondays and Tuesdays for us. This year, there are 6 remaining bank holidays on a Monday or Tuesday. So, she's got enough bank holiday allowance to be paid for 3 of those.

The nanny could use some of her 'normal' holiday allowance to be paid for the remaining 3 bank holidays. If so, we'd have to agree who has 'chosen' each of the days, according to our original 50/50 agreement.

Or, she could choose to be paid for the 3 extra bank holidays, and have the rest of her normal holiday, and work 3 extra days in lieu at some other time.

This option could work out well, as she'd have all the bank holidays paid, plus we'd still get 2 weeks choice each.

What do you all think? Does this seem fair? We get on well, so far, and I'm keen to preserve the working relationship and be fair, and legal!

I'm afraid I find that a bit confusing, and I think she probably will too.

Also it appears that you are saying: "I don't want you to work on a Bank Holiday but I am only going to pay you for 3 out of the 6 bank holidays this year, so if you do not 'choose' to take the other 3 out of your holiday choice I am not going to pay you for them". This is even worse IMHO than just saying "you must take all 6 bank holidays as annual leave".

I think the best thing you can do is sit together and decide when it would be best for both of you to take your main holiday(s) with a bit of give and take if necessary, rather than expecting that a rigid contractual arrangement is going to come up with the best solution for anybody.

Really? Hmm. I think, coming from a corporate background, I'm used to there being a 'right' (or rigid) way of allocating holiday, rather than being able to negotiate it.

Whichever way you break it down, it does come to 11 days. Take out the 6 bank holidays and that doesn't leave much for actual holidays away, unless they are restricted to those times. I felt that being able to be paid for the 'extras' but then making the time up later preserves some of the 'normal' holiday days to actually make some good stretches of time away, if required.

6 bank holidays, you choose 3 days holiday, she chooses 3 days holiday.

I don't see how else you can do it, unless you have her work some bank holidays and take holiday at other times.