Question for childminders about training, inspection and registration

[MummaMinnie]

My CM's registration has lapsed - she said it was Ofsted that let this happen. Do they not remind CMs when fees are due?

Anyway, they said last year (about April time) that they need to reinspect her. It was going to be around June. Then it dragged on to October. They've now said that she needs to do a one day early years training session. Every time I ask about where things are with this there's something to hold it up - waiting on being inspected, trying to book course and will call up this week, the person that deals with our area is on holiday until next week. There always seems to be something. This has been going on for nearly a year now and we can't pay her with the voucher scheme because she's not registered so we're also paying her separately. It's costing a bleeding fortune but if we come out of the voucher scheme and then back in, it's under new rules and we won't save as much in the long run. So we're 'banking' the money.

Anyway, apart from that she's a fantastic CM and my daughter loves going there after school. There aren't many other CMs that pick up from her school either so it's not like there's much choice even if I did want to move her (but I'd rather not) :( She said that Ofsted are notoriously slow at sorting things out but surely there must be more than one person she could talk to about this training session. And when she does get around to booking it will she have to wait months? Is there an online schedule?

Sorry for rambling and thanks if you get this far.

Can you explain how her registration has lapsed? There is an annual registration fee that is payable is this what you mean? If she has not paid then she is on dodgy territory. They send a letter telling you your payment is due if you do not pay you also receive a letter telling you you have so many days to pay or your registration will be revoked. If this is the case as far as I know she can no longer be a registered provider so is therefore not allowed to accept children for more than two hours a day her insurance will also be null and void. If she has no registration she will have to reregister and do the cypop5 course which takes about a month to complete although according to this fact sheet www.ofsted.gov.uk/resources/factsheet-childcare-resigning-and-cancelling-registration-early-years-and-childcare-register she will have disqualified herself (page 4) so therefore can not reregister. it may be worth checking her registration status on the ofsted website if you go to the inspection report section and put in her EY number it will tell you her conditions of registration.

Even when Ofsted are being slow, it's very unusual for them to take a year to register a childminder - and that's registering someone who has never been registered before and is starting from nothing at all.

Ofsted send you a letter telling you when your registration is due for renewal and how to pay (my registration was due to end in December, so had the letter at the end of November, I think)

It's only £35 for a standard renewal, so why SHE has let it lapse is beyond me - once it's lapsed you have to start the registration process again I believe, which is why she will need re-inspecting (which will be within 3 months of her sending off her registration forms, which she will need to obtain from her Local Authority at one of their scheduled Briefing Sessions. Timings of these are set by the LA and not Ofsted).

As lesbianmummy1 says, without being registered she is not covered by insurance and she is not legally allowed to accept ANY payment for caring for children for more than two hours a day. If she is looking after your DD for more than two hours a day, and is being paid for this, then she is breaking the law and neither she nor you will have a leg to stand on if anything happens to your daughter whilst with this 'CM'.

lesbianmummy1 The CYPOP5 and CACHE courses are not actually required by Ofsted (or under the EYFS) - they are preferred, and some Local Authorities require you to have one but it's not necessary under the terms of registration for Childminders (have been through this with my LA and Ofsted). For example in my LA neither CYPOP5 or CACHE have been offered for a while now, but the LA put on 3 free basic training sessions in the EYFS so those on top of the Paediatric First Aid and Food Hygiene certificate are sufficient to meet the requirements of the EYFS and Ofsted's criteria.

Looking at that Ofsted link, the CM wouldn't be disqualified as the reason for the registration was non-payment of fees:

If you do not pay the annual fee for continued registration and do not tell us you want to resign, we will take action to cancel your registration. If you want to reapply to provide childcare in the future we will take your non-payment of the annual fee into account, when deciding on your suitability to provide childcare.

If you do not resign and we cancel your registration for any reason other than not paying your annual fee for continued registration, this disqualifies you from providing childcare now or in the future.

Also - OP, you don't say how old your DD is, but according to that factsheet your CM doesn't need to be registered in order to care for children aged 8-18 (although this does mean you still won't be able to use Childcare Vouchers to pay) I know that to care for under 8s, you must be registered.

Flisspaps I have been told cypop5 is compulsory but interesting how yet again Ofsted tell everybody different I spent thirty minutes asking question as in eyfs it says registration course must be completed within six months so no specific clarification

Have you used her during a time when she was registered, and if so do you have the registration number on some paperwork somewhere? If you do, then check online or call Ofsted and ask if they are still registered.

It seems a bit fishy... maybe she has been registered for some reason but not told you the reason.

Keep banking the vouchers and consider using another childcare provider.

It is definitely not compulsory - I checked this out with my Early Years team because I was badgering them for dates for courses and they don't run any in my area - as you say, the EYFS doesn't specify a particular course (unlike where it specifies Paediatric First Aid and Food Hygiene if you are providing food) and what you need to know can be covered in a number of ways - including ICP, CYPOP5 and CACHE, or your LA's own training programme.

Thanks for all you replies! My DD is 8 but there are children there of school age that are younger. I had a feeling that she was breaking the law, especially with the little one she looks after, but I've not wanted to push too hard because (a) I'm very happy with her and my DD is happy and (b) there is very little choice for other childcare. Not many CMs pick up from her school. There is an after school club she could go to but she'd have to get a bus to it and I'd rather use that as a very last resort.

I've got an EY number for her from when DD first started but it doesn't show up on any searches. I suppose I didn't want to get her into trouble but I just don't feel she's telling me the whole story and I don't know why.

So, Flisspaps, you think she won't have to do any training and can just ask for an inspection?

Do you know if there's anyone I could phone and ask them a general question? I'd really like to get to the bottom of all this but I'm not having any luck with the CM. It's like a brick wall when it comes to this. :(

Oh and the other thing, is there usually only one contact that you have for your area? She said that her contact is on holiday this week and when I asked her she said that there was no-one else that could help with the query.

Ofsted 0300 123 1231

They will be able to help you to untangle this

No MummaMinnie I am saying it sounds like she needs to go through the entire registration process again (it's not as simple as having an inspection) - which means:

Attending an information session run by her Local Authority in order to get the relevant paperwork to apply to Ofsted
Send the paperwork off to Ofsted including a Health Assessment form signed by her GP (along with her registration fee and pay for the Health Assessment)
Get new CRB checks for herself and anyone over 16 living in her home
Complete a Paediatric First Aid course (if hers has expired)
Attend any training that her LA deems necessary under their own rules
Have a pre-registration inspection by Ofsted to ensure that her home is still safe and that she is still able to fulfil all the requirements of the EYFS
Arrange and pay for Public Liability insurance

From beginning to end that took me about 12 weeks.

They will also take into account her non-payment of fees (as the link posted earlier says) and if you phone Ofsted to say that she is working without registration - particularly as she is looking after younger children without registration now - then I can't see that wouldn't be considered as well if she reapplies.

BALD is right to suggest phoning Ofsted - you will either verify her story and know that she will be sorted soon, or you'll find out that she's lying to you and is minding illegally (if she's looking after under 8s for more than 2 hours a day for payment with no registration)

Thank you so much for all your replies! x

I've just called Ofsted and she is definitely not registered. :-/

yikes

you might want to pull her from the setting?

if so, look here follow the directions, bear in mind that the F I S info can sometimes be very out of date so ring your local authority and ask for a current list. Also they may be interested in someone working without registration, so do mention the reason you are looking for childcare.

I am so sorry, you have been badly let down

x

Oh dear MummaMinnie hope you find somebody reliable soon. If you want you could post areas here and see if anybody can help.

So you have about a years worth of childcare vouchers, which could be £243 x 12 = £2916 which needs to be spent on Registered/Approved care. Your current provider is not registered and it sounds as though they are not likely to be registered soon, so what will happen with the vouchers?

Contact the voucher company and find out what will happen with the vouchers - can you keep banking them, if so for how much longer? If they are Edenred vouchers, then you can keep banking them if they are Electronic Vouchers. If they are the paper vouchers, then they have an expiry 1 year from issue. See Edenred FAQ.

The after-school club may not be ideal but it may be able to take the vouchers. So find out what you can about the club and if they accept your particular vouchers and what can/can't be paid for using those vouchers (for example, if they are providing the bus, can that be paid for using voucher money?).

I would wonder what the reason is for why they have deregistered / been deregistered. They had a EY number, but it's not showing up on the current Ofsted database. Maybe your local authority could give you some info about that EY number - they might have something on record, though if they will tell you or not I don't know.

Have you googled her name, and the name of any other adults at the property? That might reveal something, if say the local paper reported on some event in the past.

They haven't moved house have they since you got the EY number?

Were you ever able to use that EY number - thus pay via vouchers at any point in the time you have known them?

Thanks LesbianMummy1 and BoysAreLikeDogs but it's quite a specific area and I know there aren't many CMs that are available to pick up from DD's school. In fact, out of the three other CMs nearby, one is leaving soon, one doesn't take children > 8 and the other doesn't do holidays. It's not leaving an awful lot of choice!

You're right nannynick, we have banked a lot of money in the scheme. DD goes to an extra curricular education place once a week and we can use them there but we've probably got about 3 years worth of money (and rising) if we used it just for them!!

I don't know why she's no longer registered. She said that it was Ofsted's fault, that they didn't remind her but I fail to see how they could be so inefficient. They've been at the same address since DD started. I don't think there's any reason why they would have been deregistered apart from not paying. They've got a dog. Would that be a problem? I wouldn't have thought so.

a dog wouldn't be a prob

the de-regging is a mystery. Ofsted DO remind, annual renewal letter a fortnight or so before renewal is due, then at least one reminder letter, then a letter stating they intend to sling you off

So no, I don't believe her

My worry is - no current reg, so has she let her first aid and insurance lapse too?

"My worry is - no current reg, so has she let her first aid and insurance lapse too?"

Good point.

Ask her for sight of her first aid cert, and public liability insurance cert too

My cynical side says there ain't any

Sorry to be such a downer about this, but your DD is so so precious, you know what I mean

Flisspaps and lesbianmummy1 you are both right... and both wrong. To register as a childminder you are required (within 6 months of registration) to complete a course satisfactory to your Local Authority. Some LAs run specific courses (which may well be free or subsidised), some accept a CYPOP5 run by an independent training provider (which almost certainly won't be). This is entirely up to the LA, Ofsted have nothing to do with it, so what applies where you live lesbianmummy1 does not necessarily apply where Flisspaps or the OP lives.

Flipslaps you do not have to attend an information session run by your Local Authority in order to get the relevant paperwork to apply to Ofsted, you can apply online. This will get the CRB process started, which can often be the long pole in the tent. Some LAs like to be in control of the process so spread around myths like that.

If her registration has been cancelled because she failed to attend a training course required by Ofsted (which reading between the lines is what seems to have happened), it is not a simple matter of starting the registration process again. As quoted elsewhere in the thread:
"If [Ofsted] cancel your registration for any reason other than not paying your annual fee for continued registration, this disqualifies you from providing childcare now or in the future." By not attending required training she would have demonstrated in Ofsted's eyes that she is not fit to be a child care provider. For anyone in this position for whatever reason, it is much better to resign your registration before Ofsted cancel it (which they will do, and they give plenty of chances and warnings), then you can reapply at some time in the future.

If you want to use your vouchers, find another childminder.