Withdrawing an employment offer after reference checks?

[vlindeer]

Namechanged regular here.

We made a conditional offer to a nanny a week ago, subject to all the usual reference checks. She didn't seem at all concerned by this, reiterated that she was very keen on our job and looked forward to hearing from us. Her written references are all positive so I didn't anticipate any problems.

She was open about the fact one job didn't work out and declared it rather than leaving a gap on her CV, and she has another couple of gaps during which she says she was looking for work.

I contacted her most recent employer who gave such a neutral verging on negative reference. She sounded very lukewarm when I mentioned the nanny and she didn't really have anything good to say to be honest. It may have been a case that they didn't gel, although she spoke in glowing terms of her current nanny (who she mentioned entirely spontaneously as a comparison). This nanny is a very calm and measured person so I wonder whether it was a bit of a mismatch given that one of the positive points of the referees new nanny was that she's very sociable both in her job and with the family outside work hours.

I also asked whether the referee had been contacted by anyone else about this nanny because she's been looking for a while and she said she spoke to one family and was contacted by an agency but when she called the agency back they said this nanny already had a job. If she did then it's not a job declared on her CV.

So I then contacted another reference who was very positive, made no mention of any problems, I brought up the same points as I did with the other referee and she had nothing bad to say, said this nanny had a very happy disposition, still kept in touch with the children, had made plans to visit them over Christmas while she's in the area etc.

Now, do I contact her college and placements (she qualified roughly 5 years ago so it might be a bit of a long shot)? Do I bring a couple of these points up with the nanny? She only has 2 references and they are polar opposites so there's something odd going on but I don't want to compromise the referees. I can't believe that they were talking about the same person.

How do I go about telling this nanny that we don't want to employ her if we can't reconcile these disparities? I'm verging towards better safe than sorry here. A trial isn't really an option or I would have her for 48 hours to see how it goes.

Do you like her ?
Did you you kids like her?
if you what to give her a chance go it ?
nothing is 100% in this world.

Thats a difficult one. What did the nanny say about the negative job and the details of it.

Do you think it's possible that the agency got her confused with someone else, or meant a temp job?

Or possibly it was a way of not taking a job she didn't want. Agencies can be really pushy and give yo the hard sell on jobs that just don't suit. Years ago I worked in an office and I hate filing. I said that to them and they sent me for a interview as an filing clerk only they told me it was an office assistant job. I realised at the interview when I was asked what don't you like doing. I said I don't particularly like filing....stunned silence. I was raging but could really afford to piss off the agency so said I was waiting to hear about another job before going forward with a second interview.

Hey there,
While I urge you to be cautious when hiring a nanny I also urge you to go with you gut feeling when you interviewed this nanny. I'm a nanny myself and had an awful time with a previous employer before my current family. I didn't click with the mum, to say the least, and although she was the one who let me go she didn't like the fact that I refused to have no further contact with her, for reasons I won't go into here as it would be a two page posting !
Anyway I found out through my current boss when having a sit down talk one day that my previous boss had bad mouthed me to her we she phoned for a reference. On leavng she had given me a good written reference so I used her as a referee for further interviews for jobs and knew nothing of this. I was livid to say the least and it also puts as nannies in a bad situation as we rely on good references and any doubt in a parents mind can be truly damaging to our reputation and fuutre prospects. Luckily I had lots of previous employers references that my curret boss could contact all who set her mind at ease and I'm glad to say I'm still there 2 years on.
My advice is to sit down with this nanny and explain the situation as she may be able to clear up some questions for you and go into more detail about her working situation with her boss. It may be a case of they didn't see eye to eye on certain things or have different personalities. If the mum was a bubbly out going person and the nanny more serious and reserved she may have taken her to be sullen and moody just because she didn't burst in through the door every morning raring to go.
You mention you can't give her a trial but that's really the best way to do it as you can get a feel of her in the job and in this line of work it really is finding a nanny and mother who just click together.
I would ask her to explain more about her previous boss and see if she sheds some light on maybe why they didn't get along and mention the other lady you contacted. If at the end of the interview you still don't feel reassured then you'll have to look elsewhere, as you won't feel comfortable going off and leaving her with your children and the nanny will pick up on this and it will create a bad vibe in the house and working relationship.

Good advice cinnanmon

Ask her, and if her explanation of things sounds plausible then hire her, making sure contract allows for either party to give 1 weeks' notice for first 6 months. If it works out, great. If it doesn't, you can replace her.

Firstly, I'd look at how each employer reported facts. For example, how many sick days did she take? What was her punctuality like? Are these good from both refs?

I'd also look closely at what negative/positive things the ref said and think about which you prefer, so for example if one said 'she's great, really professional' and the other said 'she wasn't very friendly/didn't want to socialise with us' you need to think which side of the fence you fall on. Do you want a nanny who maintains a professional distance or one who will socialise with you. Often one persons negative can be anothers positive.

Did the most recent employer give a good written reference and then when you rang a bad reference? If so, I would wonder how much I could trust them.The nanny has been honest with you, by giving two conflicting references the other family have not.

Are you worried that she's had another job that hasn't worked out more recently.
If you are you can ask for a breakdown of her jobs and any benefits she has claimed since last April 5th when the new tax year started. You would need this as an employer to work out how much tax she needs to pay. You would need this information anyway to complete a P60.

She's very unlikely to lie in that circumstance.

If its all fine, then I'd just stick to the basic questions as the poster above said, sickness, time keeping, honesty, good with kids etc.

You would need this as an employer to work out how much tax she needs to pay.
No you wouldn't. Tax is calculated according to what is on the P45 (which only contains the name of the last employer and the date of leaving), or if there is no P45 using an appropriate temporary code (sometimes called an 'emergency' code but this sounds more alarming than it usually is).

You would need this information anyway to complete a P60.
No you wouldn't. If you have previous employment details (from a P45) they go on the P60, if you don't then they are left blank.

Of course you can always tell her that you need the details and see what she does. Personally though I would probably carry through with the employment: I look at it this way - you could ditch her now and start looking for another nanny and you will never know whether it would have worked out. You could even have missed out on a really good nanny whose last employer is just a bit over-critical when giving references. Alternatively if she starts in two weeks it will take you a couple of weeks to get a feel for how it is going to work out, if she is a dud, let her go on a weeks notice and start looking for another nanny. So all you have to lose is 4 weeks - and there is no guarantee that the next nanny who comes along is going to work out better, she may just have better sorted referees!

Oops, the P45 doesn't even have the previous employer's name.

Because of this some people think that it is not possible to identify a previous employer, but it does have a reference which uniquely identifies them. This reference is in theory confidential between the previous employer and HMRC, but if you work in an industry with a few large firms it is often possible to work it out.

Yes I am a little concerned that she might have had another job. I will try the tax approach but it's possible that a short job which didn't work out was never put through the books. It would at least give me the date of her last declared employment if I understand you right.

We can't have a trial as our current nanny is occupying the spare room and it's Christmas etc so that takes us to the beginning of January which is a long time and I was hoping to have a nanny in place by mid-January to prevent any gaps in childcare cover, although grandparents have said they will help out short term if necessary. I can't boot current nanny out of her room for 48 hours, she's already very kindly agreed to be daily from a local hotel for the last week so we can get a handover in, and a trial with new nanny in a hotel won't give a sense of what she's like to live with and I suspect that is where previous employer's gripe lies. And potential nanny mentioned being away over Christmas.

Concerning what the referess said both said that she was punctual and reliable with no time sick, but ref 2 did say she seemed permanently exhausted. There did seem to be a sense of 'she wouldn't do what I wanted', 'she didn't have much initiative', 'she didn't arrange enough playdates' but you're right those are very personal, subjective feelings. They did lead from the 'good with kids' comment though, and I do prefer to ask what they're like to live with as we don't have a mansion with a separate nursery wing for the nanny!

I did like her, as did DCs, and an excess of professionalism doesn't really bother me I suppose, although it would be the opposite of our current nanny who is very bubbly and always out doing things. I really don't want to do 1 weeks notice as both DP and I have a few business trips coming up which we cannot cancel given that both our companies are downsizing (as are many others), DP is up for promotion and we'd like another baby so I want to keep my nice maternity package but an extended probationary period would be good.

This has shaken me though, and if the chat with her doesn't go well what is my position on retracting the offer?

'There did seem to be a sense of 'she wouldn't do what I wanted', 'she didn't have much initiative', 'she didn't arrange enough playdates' '

1 and 2 doesn't seem great but you can ask questions that would test that. The only thing I would say about playdates is I'm having terrible trouble getting playdates for my charge. It's all a bit clicky round here and all invitation are agreed and then cancelled the day before or after. It's really annoying. I do make up for it by taking him to lots of playgroups and out doing other things instead, skatepark, museums, toddlers groups, parks, etc. I do get really frustrated with the insular attitude of the people in the local town, but hey ho

This has shaken me though, and if the chat with her doesn't go well what is my position on retracting the offer?

You would have to tell her why (that her references were unsatisfactory). In theory she could take you to court and you would have to prove that you acted reasonably, but this is highly unlikely in practice.

She could be sued even if she said that the offer was subject to references? What did the nanny reckon that statement may have meant then? And if you can be sued ANYWAY, is there any point in making that comment.

I guess if she's lied outright.

Does she have a job she's resigned from?

Anyway, it seems to me it's the people who gave the verbal references that didn't match up to the written reference that have more to worry about.

And that I would be cacking myself about actually. You don't want them ringing you up and going: I never said that, I said she was great if she takes it up with them.

Personally I would be bending the truth about the reason you're not hiring her, if you don't. You could be very honest and say that on reflection the personality fit isn't quite right for a live in role. When my colleague had this happen (changed her mind about a nanny) I'm afraid she paid her for several weeks...

I ring up the references before making an offer, rather than do that subject to references thing.

BUT

I reckon the agency doesn't know what they're talking about, mixed her up with soemone else.

Also - it must be SO hard being a nanny and knowing that if you have crazy employers or people you just didn't gell with, you are still dependent on them for sodding reference. It's really shit. Lots of people can't recognise when they're part of the issue too and just say: look she wasn't right for us but, etc.

That really may be the case here, I would just have a long probationary period.