nanny off sick again....do I keeping paying out indefinitely?

[mulranno]

my nanny has just been with me a month and i have just had my second sunday morning call to let me know she will not be in for a whole week due to sinusitis...do i ask for a drs note - can i claim her wages back from somewhere - i work on a day rate so this situation costs dear paying someone elses wages whilst not being able to earn the money myself to pay them

What's in the contract about sick pay?

Can you just do SSP? Then you're not paying full salary and the onus will be on her to return to work.

How can you be off sick a whole week with cinusitis? I used to get if all the time, still went to work. Has she got a doctors note?

I'd certainly ask for a doctors note, allow her to self certificate without pay for the first 4 days.

Are you sure she expects payment?

You must insist she give you the doctors note for both this and the previous week.

Is she on probation?

I had chronic sinusitis, would be ill once or twice a month. When you get it this often, it can hit you quite hard, and you will usually need antibiotics. I was really poorly for 2 days while antibiotics kicked in, then picked myself up by using nasal sprays, decongestant tablets, paracetamol and ibuprofen.
If she is like me, she is quite possibly very ill with it, and might need a full week to kick it. But, she will also have seen a doctor who has prescribed her antibiotics, and if sensible will have asked for a sick note. If she does not already have one, she is bollixing you.

Sick note and SSP once it kicks in. Not her fault she's ill but if you can't work the obviously you can't pay.

They have been with you for a short period of time, so are they still in probation? At some point you need to decide if things are working out or not. Failure to turn up at work is clearly a problem, regardless of the reason why they fail to turn up. It can't go on for ever, so if their health is so bad that they can't do the job, then they may need to work elsewhere. For now, manage the attendance but as part of probation review you will need to consider the amount of time they have had off, is it acceptable, is it likely to continue.

ACAS: Managing Attendance (PDF)

Can the job be adapted in any way to enable them to work whilst ill? A GP may well issue a Fit Note which states "may be fit for work" but you need to decide what parts of the job could be done whilst they are ill.

Tiredness may be an issue but does that mean they can't work? I expect that many of us nannies have had bad days when we were not feeling great and we still went to work and spent more time at the house rather than going out and about. With sinusitis there can be pain involved, but isn't that what pain killers are for?

GPs don't issue a Sick Note any more. It has been replaced by a Fit Note. The Fit Note will say if the GP feels that they are not fit to work - thus SSP can then kick in.

SSP kicks in once they have been sick for at least four days in a row (including weekends, bank holidays and days that they do not normally work).

HMRC: SSP Calculator
Employer Handbook about SSP

If you use a payroll company, talk to them about how SSP is calculated. Make sure your nanny also knows that SSP will kick in and that it isn't much money.

Does your contract mention SSP? Does your contract make provision for your employee to have any Sick Days as paid?

Your nanny works 12-7 I think... so if they felt better in the morning, perhaps they could still come to work? Maybe they could start later, once first child is back from school. They are not doing school run, so if they are feeling tired then it's not as though they are driving children in car. They do still need to get to work but are they too tired to do that?

I feel you need to know what it is they are capable of working. Ask to see a Fit Note. See what their GP has to say about their ability to do some or all of the job role.

I've never paid sick pay at all. (and consequently not had much sickness in nannies!). I def wouldn't be paying it if its the second time in a month that's ridculous.
I've also had bad sinusitis and never been off for a week.

It does sound like she's taking the mick

Fogot to mention - obv pay SSP but you can claim that back.

What did her references say about attendance record? I was passed along a nanny with stellar references (and lovely personality) but who had chronic health problems.

I don't know the ins and outs of sinuitis and whether it is 'chronic' or she's just going through a bad patch she will get over from permanently. I would get a fit to work note from the GP for this incident and, after finding out whether this could be recurring by its very nature, you can request more detailed medical records to see whether the 'fit to work' note means...until it happens next time.

Our previous nanny was under the treatment of various consultants for her problems, and we would have been entitled to request these records (there is a formal process for doing this which I don't remember now.)

If she's slightly taking the mick, showing her you mean business should deter her.

You could think about 'what adjustments could be made' but in reality I'm not sure how well this works with someone who has no other colleagues to cover for them. Find out more about the condition but if it's longstanding I would consider cutting my losses if she's only been with you a month. Even covering the doctor's appointments can be very demanding in terms of your time for people in these situations.

I don't know whether it could be discriminatory to get rid, even during a probation period, on the basis of her health though unless the notes are pretty categoric she's not fit. If it's a grey area I would probably be taking advice.

refs were good I was very thorough and asked about reliability, time off sick etc. haave looked at the contract (standard from nannytax)and yes it is only SSP and/or discretionary full pay which can just be a one off and does not set a precident...so I have paid in full the first time, contract is dated from 31st October but not yet signed....she works for me on a mon, thurs and fri and someone else on tues and wed. she called me on sunday to say she would not be in until next monday....if i understand SSP...when does SSP kick in ? on day 4? so I need to pay her for thurs and friday only at 40% of the weekly rate of SSP so 40% of £82.20?

You pay (a lot to) NannyTax to work out SSP

... but to answer your question, no SSP is payable until next Monday (if she is not back by then as she says she will be). Not sure where you get £82.20 from, in 2011/12 SSP is £81.60. You divide by the number of normal working days in the week, so it is £27.20 a day for this employee (yes this is illogical as the more part-time jobs you have, the more SSP you get!)

so does she get no wages for the entire week she has been off?

Yes that's right. If you only work one day a week you have to be off for nearly a month before you get SSP!

Ouch she is going to love that in Christmas Week..... also does she still accrue holiday whilst off sick? as this is the 2nd week in her to date 6/7 week employment -- which allowed me to pay her for the week between xmas and new year when she is not working.

I have sinusitus which can be very painful ,mainly the headache ,I do go in to work With lots of drugs and would take it easy at work [Its usually only two, three times a year]I was just wondering how your nanny knows that she is going to be off for the week,generally I feel much better after a couple of days with antibiotics and strong painkillers,I feel as long as we can get into work and are not contagious most nannies would try to come in.

Sorry but I would be very suspicious especially as she has other jobs. Could she be doing more hours at one of her other jobs and phoning in sick to cover?
You probably set a precedent paying her and not asking for a gps note the first time she was off.
You must ask for a gps note and evidence she is ill. Like other posters I've had sinusitis, which is horrible but is very treatable and she should be able to work.

Yes you still accrue holiday when sick.