Au pairs and notice period arrangements when you ask them to leave

[legohousebuilder]

I've asked my AP to leave in two weeks - see my other thread...www.mumsnet.com/Talk/childminders_nannies_au_pairs_etc/1346392-Quick-answers-needed-please-Letting-AP-go-tomorrow-whats-reasonable?msgid=28586311#28586311

Can anyone whose done similar give me any advice? I'm really worried about how it's going to be for these two weeks. She has just returned from a trip away - since we told her but it was planned before that - and came in the house and went straight to her room without even saying hi.

She's probably very angry and upset, and I dare say thinks you are unjustified in your reasons. (I'm going through similiar at exactly the same time - see my last thread on AP's inappropriated behaviour and I will be watching this with interest).

I have no idea. She might genuinely not know how to act now she knows your letting her go.

BUT

I rememeber you saying she spent the weekend with her mum, so she did have some adult advice and you'd expect her mum to have told her to be grown-up and dignified about this, not making a scene.

Do you need her to work for you tomorrow morning?

She said she wasn't going to tell her mum before she went away but I don't know whether she did or not.

No I don't need her to work for us tomorrow so thats good and one less thing to worry about.

AP yes I saw your thread. My sympathies.

You need to talk to her in the morning. If she is not going to make the best of a bad situation, she is not going to get the bonus at the end. If she is going to be stupid, you will give her 24 hours notice to be out of the house with no money. You don't want to do that, but if she cannot promise to do her job responsibly you are not going to pay her and she needs to leave straight away.

Everyone reacts differently in this kind of situation so generalisation is not very helpful, but a conversation on the above lines would be my starting point.

Agree with the Anchovy. You need to sit her down and tell her that that whilst you like her very much it is her behaviour and thoughtlessness that caused you to give her notice, and that she needs to address this both in her next role and in the next two weeks, because if she makes your house an unbearable place for you to be then she will have to leave before her notice finishes.

I am a live in nanny and I don't always say Hi to my MB or DC when I come in at the weekend/my off hours - I do if bump into each other in the hall or kitchen but don't actively go into the lounge to say Hi.

I agree with Squiffy though :)

Thanks for your help with this - really appreciated.

She does normally say hi Mog so that's why it felt different. I do take on the earlier point that given she is young she might not feel comfortable or know how to react to the situation. I will try and have a chat with her tonight.

I don't really want the house using as an unpaid hotel by her for a couple of weeks or more until she finds something else and with an atmosphere.
Will see how she is after college today.

AIBU to expect her to still do some minimal tasks e.g. help with cooking or ironing for the two weeks?

I lied massively when I had to ask one of our au pairs to move on, to avoid any awkwardness. I just couldn't face the thought of a potentially disgruntled young person stomping around the house for two weeks. I also offered to pay flight back home, to assist with speedy departure!
Depending on how "honest" you were and on her own levels of maturity will depend on what kind of reception you get. Once I had given notice, I did not expect any further assistance - but if you are continuing to offer pocket money, it is not unreasonable to expect some assistance.

I presumed we had to continue to offer her pay as that counts as her notice period.

I didn't want to be quite as honest with feedback as I had to be as she questionned us and pushed back - she just didn't seem to get what we were saying about her work not being great or the dangerous incidents so I had to go into more detail than I wanted to.

Maybe it would have been better to say we had guests or a change of work circumstances...too late now.

FWIW, there is no enforceable notice period & you are not "paying" her. She gets free board & lodging & some pocket money in return for helping you for up to 30-40 hrs (depending on what you agree).

There are some really nasty people who just kick aupairs out there & then. Over the 6 years I had aupairs stay with us, we had two rescue girls stay with us until they could get flights back home, as they had been asked to leave immediately by their host families. Just as some families wake up one morning to find their aupair has disappeared.
If your aupair shows you too much attitude, it may be worth reminding her of your ongoing consideration by giving her two weeks additional stay in your home.

Lego just remind her that a big reason for her departure is the fact that due to her other commitments she has essentially been unable to do the work for you she agreed! I know there were some other issues too but in a way this is one of the most straightforward 'letting go's' there could be.

Eh, bugsy?!

APs are employees. They get pay. They have the right to statutory notice (and a contract and everything which goes with being an employee). The old cultural exchange/AP visa vanished definitively a few years ago now.

Not ideal in some ways but the law says that's the way it is.

Fraktious, AuPairs are absolutely NOT employees. They are not "paid" they receive pocket money. They are not subject to statutory notice or a contract of employment. An "agreement" may exist, but it is only that, an agreement. It is still a cultural exchange programme & the au pair is still supposed to attend language classes. Check out the BAAPAA website, if you think my knowledge may be shaky.

Sorry, BAPAA website.

Well she is back from college and we've broken the ice and I think it will be okay. She is worried about her situation and I said we can talk later this evening (I'm working now and then with ds) But what I won't do is change the notice period as whilst I'm happy to be considerate for that long, I don't see why I should have her live her until she finds something else if it's longer than two weeks (which it might well be as I can't see her finding another AP job easily). She will have to sort it out with her mum and find a solution after that.

Glad you managed to have a chat legoHB. I think your notice period is fine.

bugsy ACAS, HMRC and the ECJ say different. This debate comes up time and time again on here.

BAAPA say a lot on their website which is founded on custom and not law. They do however recommend paid holidays and point out the obligations vis à vis tax and NI which are 2 pretty important indicators of employment. You'll have to come up with a better source than that to prove they aren't employees.

The spirit of cultural exchange, the ethos, whatever you call it can still be there but within the letter of the law au pairs are employees.

The Payir ruling applied to a Turkish national but equally applicable to any au pair definitively gives the status of worker.

This agency contacted ACAS in 2008 and got a definitive answer.

Apologies Fraktious - you are correct. It would seem that in 2008 ACAS defined au pairs as employees.
I take back absolutely everything I said. I was talking pre-2008 bollox.

the changes caught lots of people out. I'm sorry if I jumped on you but the misunderstanding/misinformation is so widespread and it's putting both employers and APs at risk. The so called association doesn't help to clarify things either. It's in their interests to keep things as simple as possible and the idea of being an employer (scary legal responsibilities) as well as a host family (fluffy cultural niceness) just doesn't sit well with people.

Phew - she is being really nice and helpful. I won't change my mind but it might mean I'm more lenient about when exactly she has to leave by a few days and makes the last bit more pleasant.

lego - I had similar with a live-in nanny/AP. Became nice and helpful once I told her to go. Which makes me think how disrespectful she had been previously, i.e. not that she hadn't noticed things needed doing, she just couldn't be arsed to do them.

Interesting football. Mine was paid the going rate for 25 hours + 2 evenings and was only really asked to do about 15 and 1 to 2 evenings but in reality never got round to about 3 of that even as she'd forget despite my agenda on the fridge which I pointed her in the direction of regularly. It bugs me that despite getting paid the going rate she still couldn't get her act together to do the little work she had to.
This was one of several issues though.