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Paid childcare

Discuss everything related to paid childcare here, including childminders, nannies, nurseries and au pairs.

Au pair and babysitting questions

26 replies

lemonandhoney · 10/11/2011 16:39

Background ? au pair arrived from Sweden three months ago. She is great. We all love her, and she is fab at her job. She?s managing 3 children, a large and silly dog and a single mother who works full time with great humour and grace.

But there is a small niggle that is getting more frustrating.

The contract sets out her hours very clearly, and says that the weekly salary (which is considerably higher than average, in recognition of her fabulousness) includes two nights babysitting. I didn?t specify which nights, I just said ?by agreement?. In the notes I gave her when she arrived, I said that I would like her to check with me before agreeing to babysit for anyone else in case I needed her.

In truth, she very rarely does two nights in any given week, and there are many weeks (this week, for example) when I don?t use her for babysitting at all. The children stay with their father every other weekend, and one night during the week, so I have plenty of time to organise social events when they aren?t around. And in truth, I like my children, so generally do prefer to be around in the evenings when they are. So she really isn?t doing more than three or maximum four nights a month and at least one of those will be a couple of hours at the most.

Despite that, there are times when I can?t avoid going out, particularly if it?s a work event. Or when I don?t want to avoid it, for example when a friend invites me somewhere on a particular day.

Twice in the last week, I have gone to put a babysitting date on the calendar, or told her when I will need her, only to be told she is already babysitting for someone else (my friends have embraced the idea of a cheap and reliable babysitter with great glee). It?s immensely frustrating because I have just had to rearrange a client dinner that I assumed would be ok, and tell a friend I can?t go to the ballet with her because I don?t have a babysitter (or rather, I could find a babysitter but it wouldn?t be someone the dcs knew particularly well and that would make bedtime awkward with at least one of my dds, who has various emotional issues. And, of course, I would have to pay someone when I am in fact already paying for babysitting).

What do I do here? I can?t forbid her from ever accepting babysitting dates (not least because she doesn?t get out much, and it?s nice for both of us to have some space). I could say she can only babysit for other people on those dates when the dcs are at their fathers, I suppose, or that she can only agree to sit for someone else with less than a week?s notice, but I don?t want to be unreasonable.

The obvious first step is to say she has to ask me before accepting other babysitting jobs. But of course that won?t help if I don?t know at that point that I will need babysitting. And with Christmas coming up, she is being booked up further and further in advance. I see from the calendar that she has agreed to babysit for someone on 21st December already (not a problem from my point of view, she knows we are all away that night). I can see a situation where she isn?t available at all for large chunks of December.

Just interested in what other people do, and how I strike a balance between getting the help I need and being fair and reasonable? Do I just recognise that she?s entitled to go out, and if she?s made plans of any description I have to work around it?

OP posts:
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fraktious · 10/11/2011 16:44

Tough one. It's great that she's fab and that other people recognise it but one of the trade offs for giving up your space and having live in help is that you generally get some babysitting out of it.

I'd pre-emptively book your 2 nights a week through December and say that she's fine to accept bookings when the DCs are at their fathers but the rest of the time could she just check with you first? Then you know you've got a babysitter in place and can arrange your calendar around that. If a short notice sit comes up for her she can always ask you if there's nothing on the calendar and you can free it up if you want.

ChippingInNeedsSleep · 10/11/2011 16:47

I can see how you thought this would work...and I can see how she thought this would work and I'm sorry to say, but she's in the right.

You said by agreement - so it needs to suit both of you.

You can't expect her not to make any other plans any night of any week just in case you want her.

I think you should set 2 nights per week that are 'yours' and leave her free to accept other jobs/nights out on the other nights. They could even be different nights alternate weeks to allow for the nights their Dad has them.

If it's short notice and she doesn't have any other plans and you haven't used her two nights much then she should do it without additional payment.

But yes, you are being unreasonable to expect her to sit around waiting to see which nights you might or might not need her to sit.

Sorry, I know this isn't what you wanted to hear.

lemonandhoney · 10/11/2011 17:18

I knew I was being unreasonable expecting her to sit around. I don't really expect her to do that.

I was just frustrated that on the rare occasions I need babysitting I can't have it, when one of the main purposes of having someone live in was to allow me to go out from time to time. Particularly as she has four nights every fortnight when she knows that she is able to babysit for anyone who wants her.

The pre-emptive booking is a good idea. I will suggest that to her. She's incredibly flexible about most things - when I looked a bit put out when I found out about the ballet conflict, she did offer to see if my friend would be happy for her to bring the children to my house instead.

I suspect it's only really a December problem. And of course there is an argument for finding a back up babysitter and occasionally biting the bullet and paying for one myself...

It's probably more a case of telling my friends to find their own babysitters...honestly, it's as if they have all spent the last eight years chained to their children and now have a second lease of life.

OP posts:
lemonandhoney · 10/11/2011 17:21

And also, I do need to insist on the telling me before agreeing to sit for someone else. Because the client dinner fiasco could have been avoided if she had checked with before saying yes...that's fair enough, isn't it?

OP posts:
StillSquiffy · 10/11/2011 21:06

Next time consider putting into your contract that AP is expected to babysit every other Friday and Saturday, but that you may ask them to swap occasionally. You may not need them for any Friday or Saturday of course, but they don't know that. Then, when you ask them to swap at short notice to a mid-week day, instead of them getting frustrated because you are chopping them round, they are delirious with excitement because they feel they've got a weekend night off Wink

That won't help you with one who books up mid-week babysitting of course, but I think that is more the fault of your generosity with your friends than anything else....

nbee84 · 10/11/2011 21:46

StillSquffy - is that usual for Friday and Saturdays? I thought AP babysitting was like live-in nannies which is usually Mon-Thurs so that they have a full weekend free (Fri night to Mon morning) unless specifically contracted otherwise weekend babysitting is normally paid extra.

LadyHarrietDeSpook · 10/11/2011 22:16

IME it's conventional for an au pair to mention when they've agreed babysitting with another family to give you first right right of refusal.

Are the other families paying her more like 7-8 per hour? It may be the reason why she's not keen to run it by you first...I'm not saying you're doing anything wrong but this may be what her motivation is rather than adhering to what you;ve agreed in the contract.

Tell her given your work commitments that you would appreciate it if she would check with you first.

xmyboys · 10/11/2011 22:25

I am with you OP! She is your Aupair and your arrangement should come first. I also think your friends would be really embarrassed to know you couldn't go out because your AP is sitting for them. After all you are paying her pocket money and the inconvenience of having to recruit and have someone living in your home. Your friends are reaping the benefits.
How long in advance had you asked about these particular dates?
Do you know or would use particular nights out?
I had an agreement of 2-3 nights babysitting per week, including alternate sat nights - when you actually want to go out! (didn't always use these sitting nights but better to have them in agreement than not!

ChippingInNeedsSleep · 10/11/2011 22:29

Lemon - I don't actually think it is, no. I think the onus is on you, not her.

You say you don't expect her to sit around waiting for you to decide if you need her or not - but you kind of do. You are saying she has 4 nights per fortnight to do as she pleases - that means that 10 nights per fortnight she's at your beck and call - when actually she agree to be 'working' 4 nights.

I think you should set out the two nights pw (as I said, probably alternating every other week to allow for the nights that their Dad has them) that most often suit you. Those are your nights. If she gets asked out or asked to babysit other nights she's free to do as she pleases.

If you need her or want her other nights, then you need to ask her if she minds swapping x night for y night that week. But you need to ask in advance so she has her original night free.

If she's asked to babysit or go out on 'your' nights she can ask you if you think you'll need her and you can say yes, no or I don't know yet.

It's just not fair for her to have to come to you everytime she gets asked to babysit or asked to go out. You aren't paying her a retainer.

If client dinner fiasco could have been avoided by her asking you - isn't it fair to say it could have been avoided by you telling her you needed her as soon as you knew.

It would be mean of you to tell/ask your friends not to use her - she clearly needs to earn the extra money or she wouldn't be doing it.

She sounds really nice and quite flexible. Watch you keep this working for both of you or you might find she gets poached!!

ChippingInNeedsSleep · 10/11/2011 22:35

nbee is right - AP babysitting, like live-in nanny babysitting is usually Mon/Sun - Thus nights, only Fri/Sat by agreement.

I think though, this nanny sounds lovely. The kids Dad has them every other weekend, I'm sure she will be happy to do some Fri/Sats.

Lemon - you could even have a 3 or 4 weekly rota if it suits you. It really doesn't matter how it's planned, just that it is planned and you are both happy with it.

I do understand your frustration - you thought by having someone live in you'd have someone else on hand to babysit when you needed them. Unfortunately it's not that easy is it!

ChippingInNeedsSleep · 10/11/2011 22:38

I think some people's attitude towards the AP is disgraceful or at the very least thoughtless (not the OP's). AP's have contracted hours like everyone else. They shouldn't have to ask before organising their social lives, they shouldn't have to do it around what the parents want to do at the drop of the hat. This OP is contracted to babysit 2 nights pw - why should she keep 5 free??

lemonandhoney · 10/11/2011 23:07

Thanks everyone. The weekends are pretty rare, and the contract very deliberately said any night as I knew there might be times I needed weekends.

I'm new to all this - single parenting, au pairs, etc. It all seems so complicated when having an au pair was meant to make this side of things easier. I have gone through the calendar and marked in a series of dates when I think I might want help. If I turn out not to, she has an unexpected night off.

On the her asking me front - the client dinner got put in my diary the same day she got asked to babysit. Because I assumed she would ask me before agreeing to sit for someone else I said yes to the dinner only to find out she wasn't free. If she had asked I could have said that actually I needed her that day. Clearly if she had asked the day before and I had said yes I wouldnt be in a position to complain. In the overall scheme of things it isn't the end of the world, just a bit annoying.

I am honestly really trying to do the right thing here so will let it go and suck it up.

She is very well looked after and gets masses of time off - she works far less than her contracted hours most weeks for more than the going rate. I appreciate all that she does but I'm just having a bad day and a "hang on, you're meant to be here to help ME" strop (brought on by her telling me she had booked a weekend away at a spa with the money she has made from babysitting since she arrived...).

OP posts:
mranchovy · 10/11/2011 23:11

Unless an Au Pair (or other live-in) is paid to work on Saturday or Sunday, you should not ask her to babysit for free on those days.

If you live in a city, many families don't ask for babysitting on a Friday either because there's not much point being young free and single in a city if you don't go out Friday night!

ChippingInNeedsSleep · 11/11/2011 00:15

MrAnchovy - Lemon has already said her contract states any day of the week and it's not like she's regularly asking her to babysit on Friday or Saturday nights.

Lemon - it's not easy is it :( FWIW I always think you sound lovely when you post. I can see that you are trying to do the right thing, but that it's not quite going to give you what you thought you'd get.

The whole client dinner thing was rather unfortunate. It's a shame neither of you text the other to say that night was needed/unavailable as soon as you made the commitment.

I guess the thing is that no matter how well you are treating her or how many of her contracted hours she is getting 'off' her non contracted hours are hours she should be free to earn extra money.

Would you be able to change things around so that she has less fixed daytime hours but is 'yours' for babysitting more nights a week?

I know what you are saying, you expected that having someone live-in you wouldn't have any more childcare issues and you'd be covered so that you could accept work & social invitations without worrying about childcare. That you don't even need that much babysitting, but you want it to be 'available' - unfortunately it's not that simple is it.

Who knows, if you talk to her about all of it you may be able to come up with an even better arrangement than the one I suggested.

Maybe book yourself a spa with a friend one weekend while the kids are at their Dad's - you can get some good deals!!

MogandMe · 11/11/2011 10:34

I am a live in nanny to a single parent who has a busy working schedule.

In my contract it mentions babysitting which is Mon-Thurs although I am willing to do the occassional Friday if I don't have any plans and I will be in anyway.

We have a calendar in the kitchen and my boss and I both use it to write our plans on it if she has to work late/has a work event and I will put on nights out or babysitting.

If for any reason there are any conflicts with dates/times then we discuss what can be done; can we work round each others engagements - go out later/finish earlier, ask family friends to cover for a short period, ask another babysitter. We then work together to make sure that one of us gets back so that others aren't inconvenienced by this for too long.

Ie we both were booked for a meal out - My boss booked a later meal 8ish and I went for an earlier supper 6.30ish, another babysitter came at 7.45 and then I came back and took over about 10, my boss came back after midnight.

It works for us but might not for others.

StillSquiffy · 11/11/2011 14:49

I think some of the comments were aimed at my suggestion regarding weekend work.

You can ask an AP to do weekend work, so long as it is agreed up front of course. We do a fortnightly rota with our APs - Sun-Thurs and then Tues-Sat. Which means that every other week they are off for 5 whole days - from lunchtime Thursday until Lunchtime Tuesday, so can have long weekends wherever they want, then for the weekends in between we have the luxury of babysitting over the weekend, if we need it.

The APs tend to absolutely love it because they can usually find cheapo flights round Europe on Thursdays and Tuesdays, and it means also that we can easily get them to swap any of their weekend shifts if we need help/babysitting during the week - as every family will know, swapping the other way round (to get them to work a weekend rather than midweek) is like getting blood out of a stone, and much resented, whereas telling them (as we often do) that they don't need to work on their scheduled weekends 'on' tends to result in great joy and happiness.

mranchovy · 11/11/2011 21:48

Squiffy I think your arrangement is great - as you say your AP gets 4 days off in a row every other week; you wouldn't ask her to babysit on the Saturday when she is not working would you?

catepilarr · 11/11/2011 22:21

in my last job i was always told on a sunday or monday which evenings the family wanted me to babysit that week. unless i had planned something already, like a theatre, which they new about, i worked around their requirements and thought it was fair.
btw i personally dont babysit on my days off, but dont mind babysitting on friday nights. i dont see why the friday night should be 'off limits' for babysitting if its a normal working day, but that might be just me.

Julesnobrain · 11/11/2011 23:20

I do not allow my AP to accept baby sitting jobs more than a week in advance. The whole point of having someone live in is to provide me with the flexibility and certainly a client dinner would take precedence over someone else's 'cheap baby sitting'. Having an AP live in is hard work. Personally I would be extremely unhappy at an AP taking on planned babysitting in advance on dates when I might need her. Personally I would nip this in the bud now shat ish or you will start feeling resentful.

ChippingInNeedsSleep · 12/11/2011 02:14

Julesnobrain - you are lucky to have an AP. Anyone with any sense of self worth would have told you to stick your job with that attitude. You do realise you don't own her don't you Hmm

Julesnobrain · 12/11/2011 08:28

Chipping get over yourself. I am extremely fair and responsible to my AP's and am very up front. I often have to work sometimes at short notice ( usually a week) in the evening. I explain to them up front the role and what's expected. Included in their money is babysitting 2 nights a week one night of which maybe a sat once a month. In practice we rarely use the sat and for that we would give tons of notice. One of the main reasons we have a live in is to provide that flexibility. If I had an AP who was constantly babysitting I would also question that if she needed more money maybe the role is not for her. AP is not a professional nanny role, it is live with family, improve English, meet new friends and have a fun experience.

mranchovy · 13/11/2011 00:39

caterpillar I didn't say Friday should be off-limits (unlike Saturday or Sunday), just that it can make the whole 'give and take' package a lot more attractive to the AP.

catepilarr · 13/11/2011 16:53

it was someone else who mentioned lots of nannies babysit only mon- thu.

aupairhostmum · 14/11/2011 16:53

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fraktious · 14/11/2011 17:24

Nice try at advertising there but I don't see a blog...