Nanny with very high expectations

[fairyteapot]

Just hired a new nanny. No qualifications (but has her own kids, is mature and has good experience). Pay her £10 p.h net, reasonable hours, I NEVER come home late (and often 25-35 minutes early whereupon I release her), she gets 5 weeks paid leave, plus bank holidays (all pro rated down as she's part time).

We go away for more than 5 weeks; she's likely to get an extra 3 weeks holiday and is expecting to be paid for this. I'd like her to do some work on other days - or babysitting, (to make up for the extra) but she thinks this is unresaonable. She seems to think she should be paid for all bank holidays (even though she's part time), plus 5 weeks paid leave, plus any other leave we also take.

I think this is all a bit much! What do you think?

If you choose to go away while she is available for work then of course you should pay her! You can't expect her to do additional work outside her contracted hours because you are away.

She should get 5.6 weeks holiday, pro-rated, rather than all the bank holidays though.

On those extra 3 weeks you are away, she could go in and do some work sorting out the children's rooms or cooking for the freezer though.

ok - so if she gets 5.6 weeks, then I don't pay her for Bank Holidays?

I just want to be careful and put my foot down as the last nanny ended up with about 12 weeks holiday! Crazy! She chose most of her days, then had all ours too.

I generally find that some nannies assume that families are made of money and never feel like they're getting enough. £10 ph for no qualifications is more money that nurses or teachers get paid.

Part time so you pro rate so yes, she would only get her pro rated bank holidays plus the 5 weeks pro rated (so if she does a 3 day week she gets 15 days).

Any holiday you take on top is paid (it is your choice!) but if she wanted to take extra it would be unpaid leave)

How many hours/days does she work though?

Nannies are odd because you tend to quote their pay on a per hour basis but in reality they are a salaried employee and should be treated as such

If you want her to swap that time for babysitting, then you need to agree this upfront in her contract.

I have something similar in my nannys contract. In reality, I probably only ask her to make half the time up by babysitting in the evening.

I think making up half the time could be a good compromise. thanks for that.

I understand from nanny friends that it is usual to have parents choose half holiday and nanny to choose half - so you could reasonably expect to choose two and a half weeks or so of it and of course make that when you plan to be away. With luck she might choose more time when you will also be away (or could be if you so chose). Beyond that I would say it would be reasonable to ask her to come in and do some child related chores on days when you are away but she is not on holiday - but not really reasonable to expect her to swap contracted hours for extra hours just because you choose to go away. That would in effect be forcing her to take leave and make up the time - how would you feel about that?

Yes but she's not a nurse or a teacher.

Have a look at the legal minimum for bank holidays. You should also be reasonable - should be a 50:50 split in terms of who decides when holiday is (her or you). I wouldn't expect her to have unpaid leave for the times you're away. I also wouldn't expect her to make up the days on other days - again it's your problem that you're taking the time off not hers.

This should all have been set out in the contract before you employed her.

We have a similar situation with our nanny, we are away pretty much all of the school holidays, so she ends up getting about 12wks! But it is, in the end, your choice to be away, so strictly you are going to have to suck it up. Given your situation though, I have to say I find it a strange decision to give her the equivalent of 5 weeks plus bank holidays, rather than statutory minimum though ?

Fwiw after 6-12 months we came to a compromise with our nanny and we split the time off (over and above her entitlement) in half and she does make it up with extra days or sometimes an overnight stay so DH can get away for a break. maybe you could point out that her holidays are already pretty good and ask if she might consider something like this?

Unless babysitting is in her contract, she may not want to make up the time - especially if she has a family of her own. I certainly wouldn't.

You don't have to pay her bank holidays or give them off, so long as she gets a minimum of 5.6 weeks paid holiday.

You can't make her take unpaid holiday, or insist she makes up those hours as overtime though unless you agreed that before she took the job.

5.6 weeks holiday includes bank holidays and is obviously pro rats. Check out consumer website -directgov to get the right Number of holidays based on her part time hours.
BH are a nightmare if people don't understand, ESP when most fall on Monday.
Holidays-let her know when you are away and she should be able to take most of hers in this time but could negotiate she selects some.
And absolutely agree if she wants to be paid when you are away then she can do some nursery duties/bulk cooking etc
A nanny should be making your life easier!

Good luck and be firm.

X posted! Just to add, our nanny doesn't really ask for her 2 chosen weeks of holiday at different times to ours, I think she feels that would be taking the p* too! . There have been a couple of exceptions for dates such as weddings and we have had no problem with this.

Agree with everything RM said. My contract states I get 5.6 weeks hols including bank holidays, employers choose 50% and I choose 50% and additional days chosen by employers are paid, additional days chosen by me can be swapped for days in lieu or unpaid (though they have never actually done this) All nannies I know work on the same basis.

If your boss said "take monday off as I don't need you but come in Saturday instead" would you be ok with that?

[http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Employment/Employees/Timeoffandholidays/DG_10029788 The legal info on holidays]]

Note on bank holidays from that site:
Time off for employees

You don't have an automatic right to paid leave on bank and public holidays, though many people receive the day off work. Any right to time off or extra pay for working on a bank holiday depends on the terms of your contract of employment.

Sorry! The legal info on holidays clicky link

She only does 2 days per week on Mondays/Tuesdays, and all but 1 of the BH's fall on these days - I've pro rated BH down to 40% (3.6 days) - but rounded it up to 4 for her, plus she gets 10 days AL. As the BH fall on her work days, she's agreed to use 8 days AL for these, and she'll chose the other 6 days AL. I think this is all fair. She's doing the odd extra day when I freelance, and instead of paying over £100 I wanted to swap a few of these for the extra holiday she'll get - so I'd never be docking her pay and she'll still end up with loads more holiday than most people. I think I'll suggest we go 50/50 on the extra days.

I just can't wait until the kids are a bit bigger and I can be nanny free! just getting fed up with being a 'boss' at home and an employer.

Her minimum holiday entitlement is 11.2 days (12 days in practice) so 14 days is slightly over that.

You can suggest swapping days, but bear in mind she isn't obliged to agree to it.

no disrespect to all the lovely nannies out there - much better option than nursery IMO but getting fed up after 5 years of it.

I am wondering why you are paying £10 net per hour. Seems a bit high, given that a nanny like me gets only a little over £10 per hour Gross. Guess I don't live in the right place! Maybe you struggled to find anyone interested in a 2 day a week job, thus why the higher salary offer to attract someone to the job.

As it's a 2 day per week job, then it's 11.2 days of annual leave (which can include bank/public holidays). Sounds like you are giving more than that, so no problem there.

She's able to do the occasional extra day - that's great. Some nannies would have other work commitments on the days you don't employ them.

We're in London. I also believe in being fair on the side of generous with our nannies - but I guess this one doesn't quite trust us yet so is being quite aggressive on things.

Those 20ish miles (I work near M25/M3 junction) do seem to make a difference. Yes a new nanny will need to learn to trust you and you will need to learn to trust them. That takes time but once there the relationship can go on for many years as I expect you have found with other nannies in the past.

I work two days a week one is a monday and I get paid all my bank holidays, my MB also gets paid them. You should have sorted all this out before she started why should she do babysitting just to fit in with you. She is available to work its not her fault that you do not need her. I choose two weeks and they choose two weeks., they take lots more but pay me.

As our older children were at school when our nanny started it was part of our original contract that holidays could only be taken during school holidays with nanny choosing 2 weeks, us choosing 2 weeks and 1 week over the Christmas holidays. The bank holidays came out of the 5.6 weeks first and then other days booked after that. She usually took her holidays over Easter, a few days at whitsun, the summer bank holiday week and a few days at half terms. There was one feb half term when we were away but she did not really want to take holiday so we agreed she would take 2 days off and come in for the other 2 days (4 day week) while we were away to have a big tidy up of toys and do the kids washing, ironing etc.