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Paid childcare

Discuss everything related to paid childcare here, including childminders, nannies, nurseries and au pairs.

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Original poster

Cafe owner taking business away.

46 replies

Mum2Luke · 10/10/2011 14:23

Just found out this morning that the cafe next door to our primary school is running a breakfast club but the owner has no CRB or has not been OFSTED Registered.

This is NOT fair to us childminders who already have to jump through hoops to be registered and CRB cleared to look after children under 11.

Can I report this owner to OFSTED for doing this as he is charging £1 a child. The school also already has a breakfast club so he is taking business from them too. He probably has not got Public Liability Insurance as we have

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grendel · 10/10/2011 14:32

If the cafe's breakfast club is open for less than 2 hours per day it does not need to be registered with Ofsted so they won't be interested.

How do you know that he does not have an enhanced CRB check by the way?

hayleysd · 10/10/2011 14:32

You only have to register for under 8's for more than 2 hours a day for payment not under 11's.

Surely his cafe trade won't want a load of kids in there, maybe try reporting it to social services or environmental health/hse? Ofsted won't be interested as long as there's no under 8's or for more than the 2 hours.

nannynick · 10/10/2011 17:31

Check the Registration Not Required Factsheet.

At a guess, it may fall under:
Less than 2 hours per day
Less than 4 hours per day and is activity based, such as homework support.
It is open access.

The cafe I suspect will have public liability insurance to comply with local council food premises licensing rules. That insurance may or may not provide cover given the circumstances, very hard to know. For their £1 the children probably get some food, so that makes them a customer of the cafe, thus I suspect it covers them under the policy... unless the policy specifically excludes children who are unaccompanied by an adult.

redglow · 10/10/2011 19:08

The cafe would have public liability insurance like Nick says if he is provideing food this just makes them a customer of the cafe.

lesstalkmoreaction · 10/10/2011 19:12

What do the school think? Is the cafe owner actually taking the children to school is he getting them signed over or are the school actually checking who is arriving? Or, are the parents of the older children dropping them off for breakfast and then they are making their own way to school. My son is 9 and he would think that was great.

Original poster

Mum2Luke · 11/10/2011 10:41

I know you don't have to be registered by OFSTED but he is taking business away from both the school who already runs a breakfast club and is RIGHT NEXT DOOR to the cafe and from people like myself who is struggling to get work due to there already being too many childminders in the area.

I only found out yesterday about it from a childminder whose daughter works in the school.

Its just the principle, he knows there are childminders at school trying to get business and we advertise in the cafe, no wonder we haven't had any calls!

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littleducks · 11/10/2011 10:50

I'm sorry but I think that you are upset because of the effect on your business, which is understandable but doesn't make this wrong. The cafe owner has spotted a gap in the market and presumerabley has a business to run just as much as anybody else in tough economic times. Would you not be a CM because there were other CMs in the area on principle?

I think it could be a good idea for older children, it means they get to go somehere fun, that isn't 'babyish' like a CM.

Original poster

Mum2Luke · 11/10/2011 11:03

He has plenty of business! With local workmen and people passing by/getting off the bus going in there for their breakfasts and lunches.

I am a cm not through choice as I have no family to help and as we do not get any sort of childcare help I cannot afford to go out to work for a few years yet. A cm setting is not 'babyish', it is safe and gives parents peace of mind that their child is not on the streets. My lad is 9, I take him to school but he goes to meet his mates. He walks back from school most days and I will give him a mobile in year 6 so he can go to his friend's houses or play football at the local park and he can let me know where he is.

I live a mile from the school, and in the estate where I live there are 10 childminders so I am competing for work for the 3 schools (one of which is my son's school).

OP posts:

littleducks · 11/10/2011 11:13

I didn't mean to offend you! I realise it must be tricky for you to get clients but from an outside POV you really can't expect people not to offer childcare to protect your business.

I put the babyish in quote marks because I didnt actually want to describe the setting negatively but you have to see that sitting with friend in a cafe is far more grown up for junior school children than going to a CM.

I have no idea which is better childcare without seeing cafe and the CMs involved but I do think you are wrong not to appreciate why parents might prefer other settings. Choosing alternatives to CMs hardly means that kids are out on the street!

JustAnother · 11/10/2011 13:11

For children who are not old enough to stay alone at home, but who feel too old for CMs, this might be ideal. I can't imagine any parent of very little ones leaving them there, but older children might be delighted. I am sorry it is taking your business away, but life is tough for everyone and this cafe owner is only offering a service. If people buy it, it must be that they prefer it to a CM's service.

redglow · 11/10/2011 19:21

Sorry but I think this is ideal for somebody who does not want before school care everyday, and for older children it would be great.

Booooooyhoo · 11/10/2011 19:28

how is he taking business away? he is charging £1. my school charge 50p so i would still send my child to school for breakfast club. also, i think cafe's do have to have public liability insurance, being open to the public and all that. you just sound jealous TBH.

Booooooyhoo · 11/10/2011 19:35

this just sounds to me the same thing that chip shops do by offering a schools' deal at lunch time, so children in school uniform get a meal and drink for say £2. you honestly cant expect every new business to consider how you will be affected by them opening up can you? you are running a business and if you had an idea that would make you more money you would go for it. dont say you wouldn't because you have already said you are struggling to get business.

cat64 · 11/10/2011 20:08

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

JustAnother · 11/10/2011 20:08

If the parents don't like it, they won't use it. If it is successful, it will mean there was a gap in the market and the cafe owner has found it. Good luck to him/her. Parents are always struggling to find help with childcare, so having one more option cannot be a bad thing.

sunnydelight · 12/10/2011 07:24

Sounds like a great idea for kids who are too old for a CM. You are probably aiming for different markets tbh so he's unlikely to impact on your business.

upahill · 12/10/2011 07:38

What a good idea! I wish something like this was around when my kids were younger. Good luck to him. You both offer a service that people need but have slightly different ways of offering it. It has just given people more choice to what suits them best rather than having to put up with nearest fit.

savoycabbage · 12/10/2011 07:46

It sounds like a good idea. You are not the only person trying to make a living.

You need to Market yourself to appeal to people who, like you, think it's an appalling childcare solution.

KatieMorticiaton · 12/10/2011 07:51

OP your issue is with Capitalism. Not the cafe owner.

Bonsoir · 12/10/2011 08:02

Well done to the café owner! That sounds like a good business proposition for café owners whose premises adjoin primary schools.

thebody · 13/10/2011 10:28

sorry understand you are peed off but you are running a business and so is he, incidentally I am a cm and am snowed under in business and enquiries at the moment,(west mids area) as so many cms are giving up.(where are you out of interest)

also on the babyish element of cms I have to say my 12 year old would simply refuse to go to a cm, but she would adore the cafe idea.

its hard with so many cms in your area, can you think of any way to make your particular setting unique?? or offer a particular service?? though guess you have thought of that allready.

ZacharyQuack · 13/10/2011 11:06

If there are 10 CMs on your estate, and you're all struggling to find children, then aren't you doing exactly the same thing to the other CMs that you are accusing the cafe of doing to you? i.e. providing competition, taking business away.

It's called "being in business", you can't expect a monopoly.

Original poster

Mum2Luke · 13/10/2011 16:24

The Head teacher has told him that he must not charge a fee for children sitting in his cafe when they should be in the playground. He is only allowed to serve food and then the children are to come into school, not loiter in the cafe, she is concerned (quite rightly) with the other customers not wanting Year 5 and 6 pupils on their own messing about and being late into school.

I wasn't the only childminder to not be happy either, there were 5 of us. There is a perfectly good breakfast club at school which is reasonably priced and they are looked after by staff. They can also do homework there (and at mine if they want) or play pool/chess etc

OP posts:

MrsJRT · 13/10/2011 16:29

Sounds like a case of sour grapes on all parts here. I can't see what the cafe owner is doing that is so wrong. Surely the owner of the cafe has weighed up whether having a load of kids in there early doors will be bad for his business and decided it won't so "she is concerned (quite rightly) with the other customers not wanting Yr 5 & 6 pupils on their own messing about" doesn't even make sense. What business is it of yours or the head teacher what parents/pupils do before school time? [hconfused]

Original poster

Mum2Luke · 13/10/2011 16:31

I am in Tameside, Greater Manchester and savoycabbage I have done everything I can to market myself, apart from having a Good OFSTED report and living where I do (and am not moving house) dropping business cards onto peoples' cars in local shopping centre and short of standing on street corners to drag children in am struggling to get business at the moment. Local shops are stopping people from advertising now, I have to rely on contacts or from other childminders who are full. I am only available for before and after school now as I work at lunchtimes.

Oh well, onward and upward as they say...

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