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Discuss everything related to paid childcare here, including childminders, nannies, nurseries and au pairs.

Childminders club : Major rant - advice please

22 replies

FoxyLoxy1 · 15/12/2005 18:51

I been looking after a little girl since she was 11 months old. Originally it was just a day here and a day there. Then, when she was 18 months old her hours were increased to 2.5 days. I had a baby in March and took 6 months off work. This little girl returned to me in September for 50 hours a week.

I never intended to childmind fulltime. I agreed with the mum that I would be paid for 45 hours a week, on the basis that some days she would be collected early. However, on looking at the timesheets, most days her parents arrive late. Sometimes as much as 40 minutes late, and usually half an hour late. I've worked it out that she is here around 53 hours a week and I'm being paid for 45.

However, its not really the money thats the problem. The problem is its wearing me out! I've got a 9 month old and 2 school age children. Some nights the baby will be up a lot and I can't catch up with my sleep during the day. The last 2 weeks I've felt headachy all the time and its because I'm so tired. The last 2 Saturdays I've ended up in bed. This is really starting to impact on my personal life.

Also, it would be nice to have some time with the baby. The collecting late is a big problem too. They are supposed to come at 5:30 but it can be as late as 6:20 before they arrive. By the time I get tea organised its time for the older 2 to go bed and so I'm not getting to spend much time with them. Sometimes I'm going out on a night and it has spoilt our plans on a couple of occasions. The first time they were full of apologies, but now they just do it. No warning, no sorry, they just turn up whenever they feel like it.

A couple of days ago I spoke to the mum and informed her that I would charge in future for all the hours her daughter is here. At first she wanted a reduction for the days she comes early (only ever by half an hour). I explained that if she gave me notice by the previous Friday I would be happy to do this. And I would as I would plan to do something nice with my family for that night. However, she apparantly has important things to do and cannot tell me until the day as she does not know what will happen. She's a midwife bytheway. I've worked for nurses before and they always get their off duty in advance and always managed to tell me their days off. Don't know why this mum can't.

But what has really upset me that I need to sort out is that she told me "I employ you". She didn't say it in a nasty way, more as a statement and this kind of makes sense with regards to her expectations. I think she's going totally unrealstic expectations of what she can expect from me. I think she thinks that I'm at her beck and call, just because she pays me £3 an hour.

She also told me that I have to work bank holidays as she sometimes works them and her husband cannot always get the time off. While I can see her problem, I do not want to work bank holidays as my husband does not work them and its our family time. She does not want me to take a holiday either. She needed 3 weeks off over xmas and in the summer and I agreed to take these times. However, I NEED more than this. I'm so tired and rundown, there is noway I can work from xmas until August without any time off.

Any ideas on how I should approach the mum. Whenever I say anything she tells me how she has things to do. There's no consideration that I may have things to do. And I think this comes back to her attitude of "I employ you".

End of rant and apologies for it being so long.

FL.

OP posts:
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Curmudgeonlett · 15/12/2005 18:54

She needs you more than you need her .. you can get another proper part-time charge

write down exactly what you want from a mindee .. hours, commmitment, money then tell her that's all you are prepared to do .. if she wants to find alternative care let her

katymacracker · 15/12/2005 18:55

She does NOT employ you - you are self employed as a childminder

Do you need the money or your piece of mind more?

jellyjelly · 15/12/2005 19:02

I would explain what you are prepared to do and ask if that is acceptable and if not iwould give notice as you need time to yourself and your baby.

I agree with the others. You set your own terms and conditions not her. You dont work for her you work for yourself.

ThePrisoner · 15/12/2005 19:04

Give her my phone number and I'll explain how childminders work, and how lucky she is to have (until now!!) such an understanding one. I would hate to be so unappreciated. If you can afford to lose the money from this family, then I would seriously consider giving notice. It is your family that is more important.

UCM · 15/12/2005 19:07

Agree with Curmudgeon, write down what you are prepared to do, explain that you never really wanted to CM full time and that you are more tired than you expected. If she doesn't comply, write a letter giving her notice. Thats about all you can do really.

You have to remember that you are the one in control and she it taking the mickey really. If I am going to be late for my CM I phone and let her know. It's very rare. I also pick my son up earlier on certain shifts sometimes by an hour a day. I would not dream of asking her for the money back. But I would expect her to charge me if I am late. She doesn't though! Good luck.x

bsg · 15/12/2005 19:18

I am not a chilminder but isn't £3 an hour a very good rate. I would definately pay somebody more than that to have the full responsibility of looking after my child.

BluStocking · 15/12/2005 19:20

I'm a parent, not a CM, and i would never in a million years treat a CM - or anyone - like this! She is taking you for granted, and being very selfish and inconsiderate. Given the favours and extra unpaid hours you have done, her atttitude is extraordinary.

I think you need to have a meeting with her, tell her it is not working out the way you expected - 6.20 instead of 5.30 etc, and because of your own work and home life, you can't go on like this. SAy that you would like to stick to the original terms agreed, that you will ocasionally allow extra hours with 2 days notice, IF you can do it, and will charge an extra charge per hour. AND that you must have your holidays and bank holidays.

Good luck!

FoxyLoxy1 · 15/12/2005 19:37

Thanks for all the replies. Most childminders around here charge £2.80 but don't provide meals, charge extra for toddler groups etc. I provide meals (breakfast, lunch and snacks) and pay for toddlers, so this is reflected in my rate. She always arrives hungry and mum admitted once its because she doesn't have time to give her breakfast. Mum is quite disorganised.

I think I'm going to have to sit down with her and have a long chat. Its the "I employ you" thing that's really got to me. I've another enquiry in the pipeline if I can get 2 under 1's in time.

Unfortunatley, the mum is a good friend of mine and we have the same circle of friends. Never again will I childmind for a friend (although I've done it with other friends without a problem). Last week our group went out for a meal and I arrived 10 minutes late and with wet hair because the dad arrived 50 minutes late, and this obviously had a knock on effect. She was there on time, done up to the nines, but then she didn't have anyone to think about other than herself.

I'm lucky that we don't rely on the money, so I could terminate, but I'd like to work it out if possible, if only to save the friendship.

FL.

OP posts:
HappyMumof2TurtleDoves · 15/12/2005 19:38

You are being treated really badly by this parent. I know you are probably attached to the mindee but this is not good for you or your family.

She does not employ you, and you need to make this clear to her. You are self employed. I would be if someone said this to me!

You have a choice, you can either tell her (or write down) exactly when you are available, your terms, overtime pay etc or you can give notice. Personally, if I was being treated like this, I would give notice.

When is her contract due for renewel? You need to have a proper talk with her, and lay down the law. As already said, she needs you more than you need her. She will get a real shock when she tries to find someone else if she continues with her attitude!

Contact your EYD/CIS and advertise your vacancies (childcarelink) You will find someone else. This is no good for you.

batters · 15/12/2005 20:23

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

UCM · 15/12/2005 20:44

I feel a bit funny about the terminology here. My DH is a builder (Self/em) and as far as I am concerned somebody employs him to do a job. If he done it badly I would expect the employer to with-hold payment until it is fixed.

Although looking after children is a very very sensitive issue, I still employ my CM to look after my son when I am not there. Luckily for me, she is wonderful, BUT if she did something that was not right I would be, not witholding money, but addressing it as I pay her to do a job.

It feels a bit funny saying that I employ her as she is so lovely, part of the family really. But I pay her. If your window cleaner wasn't cleaning the windows properly, you would address it. So if your CM isn't up to the mark, then......

However, I think that if a mate has said that she employs you (my first CM was a relative & couldn't bear the thought of me paying her wages and I never once said this, she told someone else), I would have to stop minding her child.

The children will pick up on this. Moral of this story... Dont CM for friends or family

UCM · 15/12/2005 20:48

God, don't know if I have explained this properly but I am on your side anyway, I think you should give notice. I have had so many problems with CM's and none of them because I have ever started such a crass statement with

'I employ you, so do what you're told IYKWIM'

katymacracker · 15/12/2005 20:53

UCM your DH is usually "contracted" to do a job

An employed pays tax & Ni for their staff

I (& all other C/Mers) pay my own tax & NI and have conracts with my parents - rather like a freelance or consultancy job

HappyMumof2TurtleDoves · 15/12/2005 21:06

UCM, childminders are definately self employed. We pay our own tax and NI - we are not employed by anyone but ourselves

Of course, if a childminder is not doing her job properly then you would make a complaint to the relevent authorities (OFSTED) but I don't think you would withhold payment as you are both under contract (unless of course she was in breach of her contract)

ThePrisoner · 16/12/2005 00:26

As self-employed people, we are able to set our own rates, hours/days of work, and have control over how we want to run our businesses. If parents don't like the way an individual childminder operates, then they shouldn't choose that childminder. If problems arise once minder and parents are already together, then nice, normal people will hopefully sit down and have a chat, and work out a solution together (but then we wouldn't be able to come on mumsnet for a moan!!)

Obviously, we will totally respect parents requests and needs but, if there is a major difference of opinion, then it is far more likely that a family will end up having to leave, rather than a childminder battling on and doing something which she doesn't like or doesn't agree with.

I certainly like the phrase "working in partnership with parents" and, luckily, I think I'm able to do that with all my families. The day they see me as an employee, or treat me like the "hired help" (in the naffest sense), will be the day I renegotiate contracts.

HellyBelly · 16/12/2005 08:22

Well put TP!

It's like we go into a shop, buy things and help keep that shop in business but we don't employ the shop, it is a business and we buy from them! One of you on here put it that way once and it's stuck with me since! I.e. you wouldn't dream of picking up something in a shop and walk out without paying! (well, some would but ykwim )

Arc2005 · 16/12/2005 09:49

THREE POUNDS AN HOUR !!!!!!!!!!

That is unbelievably cheap....

HappyMumof2TurtleDoves · 16/12/2005 11:21

I agree Arc, this so cheap!!! A lot of parents pay their cleaners more than they pay their childminders. You can not expect to pay peanuts, work someone into the ground and get a good service in return.

In what other 'profession' would some work for less than the minimum wage???

I am fortunate in that, in my area, the going rate is double that. I think childminders who work for that kind of money deserve a bit of respect

crunchie · 16/12/2005 12:01

Foxy as a mum not a childminder I can see your problem here. The first issue is to decide what you actually do want to do. My advice would be to do this on your own, or with your dh and draw up a list. Do this BEFORE you approach the mum. Once you have decided you want to (for instance) finsih work at 6pm, then work out a LATE AARIVAL FEE of say £5 for everyday they are late, UNLESS it is prearranged.

Then you need to approach the mum, I would work onthe friend side first and explain you are really grateful that she has stuck with you as a CM while you had 6 months off etc, but that you really can't contiue with teh hours as you are just SOOOO tired. Try to get her on your side by appealing to her as a friend and mother. If you do it this way then you might have some sucess and not lose her friendship.

Otherwise you will all end up unhappy, you will lose friends over this unless you can be VERY diplomatic. If she is not prepared to listen to you as a friend, then I would go down the 'proffessional' route and explain that you are going to have to draw up some new contracts in the new year. Explain that you need to do this as you are getting other potential mindees so you need to get proper contracts sorted out. Give her a new contract with all the terms on it, hours, rates, late fees etc. Give her a chance to blow up or take the piss. If she does, then give her notice, but be prepared for the fall out.

Bear in mind she IS taking the piss, she has VERY cheap cheap childminding and she won't find anyone else being as soft as you. It won't take her long to relasie this.

Good luck

UCM · 16/12/2005 20:49

I do agree with Crunchie, I no longer talk to my relative whom I was quite close to. It never blew up exactly but when I changed childminders, at her suggestion because she didn't want to do any more hours, things were never the same. I have never ever once suggested that I pay her wages/employ her but she ranted (alot) to someone that she felt indebted to me in some way. Don't get me wrong, she loved DS. There were other things ie: I asked her to take DS to a toddler group as he was minded in her maisonette all day. Her response was 'but she (me) doesn't do it'. Ok it's a struggle to get down the stairs. But she didn't really take him out at all and I worried about it. Of course I couldn't do it, I am at bloody work, thats why she was CMing!!

I think sometimes things just don't work out and that is how it is.

Hugs anyway.x

FoxyLoxy1 · 17/12/2005 12:24

Well you've all spurred me on to sort this out. Plus a friend was here this morning and she told me that she was really worried about me because I look so run down and tired. She said I look much better today. This week I've only had G for 3 days and I do feel much more relaxed. This has really brought home how tired I feel and how looking after her for so many hours is wearing me out.

After reading all your messages I wondered if I'd been a bit harsh on my friend, so read my messages back over, but everything is accurate. I don't think it had dawned on me how much she is taking me for a ride. I just knew I wasn't happy with the situation.

I'm not looking after her now until after the new year, so I'm going to use this time to think about what I really want and to come up with counters to the objections that I know she will have. I know someone who is registering who wants to work part time, so an option might be to see if we could both have her part time. I think I might sound this one out on both sides before suggesting it as a firm idea.

I really would not like to lose this friendship. I've been looking after G. for nearly 2 years on and off and this is the first time there has been a problem. The parents are good payers, which is a plus too. I think most of the friends in the group are more my friends than hers, so I don't think I would lose other friendships. Plus I know one of my friends babysits on an unpaid basis and she feel put upon too.

Thanks again everyone. I'll let you know what happens.

FL.

OP posts:
katymacracker · 17/12/2005 12:26

I'm glad you feel like this
It hard to accept that you can't do everything....I'm struggling with it myself atm

Good luck with your decisions

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