opinion on this please

[ohnoshedittant]

On behalf of a friend;

She's a live-in nanny. Initially 3 children, but family have just had a fourth. Her contract includes 2 nights a week babysitting (standard for live-in). She usually works until 7pm and children in bed by 8pm at latest - so essentially works an hour extra and then just listening out for them. The baby is 8 weeks old and the family are now including the baby in the 'babysitting' remit (MB on maternity leave so she doesn't care for the baby during the day and contract had not been amended to include the baby yet). The baby is always unsettled early evening and basically screams from 7pm-9pm. Baby is EBF so even if the screaming is hunger - nothing she can do. She thinks they are unreasonable to leave the baby with her in these circumstances, I agree.

What do you think?

can tell you've never had to actually deal with any sleep issues, tbh. lucky you. settling a child who is truly scared of the dark can be harder than settling a screaming baby, ime.

I cannot believe she did not talk to her bosses re: babycare (mind you, I can't believe they didn't talk to her either, I guess).

she is not being expected to do more work. she is paid for babysitting - that is what she is doing. if she had had her babysitting nights increased to 3 per week - that is more work.

I think you have the problem in a nutshell when you say the problem is "her evenings being consumed" - but she needs to get over that, tbh. it is what she is employed to do.

If she was being left with the baby all night, then I would also understand the being too tired to care for the other children issue, too. but she isn't. the parents are back by 10 - so she is getting a full night's sleep, and should be well able to perform her duties the following day.

I do not agree re: payrise either, necessarily. or re-working of duties. if/when I have a third child my nanny will not get an instant payrise, nor a reduction in duties (aside from maternity leave, when there would be a shared care element). I will also make use of the babysitting evenings, although probably not twice a week, but that is personal choice.

'can tell you've never had to actually deal with any sleep issues, tbh. lucky you. settling a child who is truly scared of the dark can be harder than settling a screaming baby, ime'

You're right I haven't. Sorry to sound blase. If it is as time demanding as settling a screaming baby I would consider it over and above normal 'babysitting' and expect extra pay though.

'I cannot believe she did not talk to her bosses re: babycare (mind you, I can't believe they didn't talk to her either, I guess).'

She may have done. I don't know exactly what they discussed, but I know the issue of babysitting/evenings at 6/7/8 weeks wasn't mentioned.

'she is not being expected to do more work. she is paid for babysitting - that is what she is doing. if she had had her babysitting nights increased to 3 per week - that is more work'

If she was left with the tiny baby for 2 hours during the day would this be babysitting or childcare/nannying? She has different rates in her contract for each so it is important.......

'she needs to get over that, tbh. it is what she is employed to do'

This is where we need to agree to disagree I think. I think the definition of babysitting is quite broad. If you are given a definition of 'keeping an ear out' then that is what you expect to do, that is what she agreed to do, IMO that is what she is employed to do.

'If she was being left with the baby all night, then I would also understand the being too tired to care for the other children issue, too. but she isn't. the parents are back by 10 - so she is getting a full night's sleep, and should be well able to perform her duties the following day'

It wasn't me/my friend that said that about being tired - that was someone else. She does get a full nights sleep. Sometimes it's nice to eat supper/have a shower/relax/have an evening as well as a full nights sleep.

'do not agree re: payrise either, necessarily. or re-working of duties. if/when I have a third child my nanny will not get an instant payrise, nor a reduction in duties (aside from maternity leave, when there would be a shared care element). I will also make use of the babysitting evenings, although probably not twice a week, but that is personal choice'

Lucky nanny! Much more work, not a penny extra!
(unless she's extremely well paid to start with, in which case that would seem fair)

Mine never went 3 hours when they were breast fed. I was doing 2 hourly feeds until they were 6 months old at least.

My nanny's contract, and mine when I nannied, all say 'X and any subsequent children' so a payrise isn't on the table.

It depends what they're doing IMO. If it's a regular commitment (bible study, orchestra, etc) then surely nanny would have realised she would need to include baby in the babysit from fairly early on? If she isn't BU about it she's certainly naive. Maybe 6 weeks is a bit young but it's unlikely to have made a real difference before 3 months.

That said I will always leave milk (DS feeds roughly 3 hourly now but even if I'm just going put for an hour I leave a bottle) and at that age I was pinned to the bed/sofa with him feeding one side then the other between 7.30 and 10 or so. They ABVU not to leave milk.

I think it is pretty standard for babies to have a witching hour(s) especially in the evening and 7-9pm sounds very normal! We vaguely followed the feeding / sleeping times of GF but I remember the 7-9pm period being one where I kept nipping upstairs to BF, jostle, sing etc. to try and get the babe to sleep.

We now have a second baby and from 8 weeks, very occasionally nipped round the corner for a bite to eat leaving our lovely nanny in charge. She understood that in this case, babysitting was going to be quite a full on task but at no point did she grumble. We didn't leave her for hours and it certainly wasn't twice a week, but i'd have been shocked if she'd asked for extra pay. 2 nights babysitting is standard and sometimes it doesn't interrupt your evening as a live-in nanny and sometimes you're required to do some active babysitting. That said, we'd always be sensitive to the fact our nanny would be busy during the day with DS1 and would need her sleep. I also made sure that when I was on maternity leave, she had a good chance to spend time with the baby so she felt entirely comfortable and got to know her.

I'd also add the whole point of having a nanny is that you don't have to renegotiate the contract when a new babe comes along. As others have said, it is per household. That said, as an employer, i'd probably give a pay rise.

Another who thought colic, my eldest was like this, you feel awful when you cant comfort your own baby because he appears to be in pain, let alone someone elses!

I take it she/mum has tried the usual remedies, Infacol is that still around? Not that it appeared to work for Ds1.

Whether you need to renegotiate the contract will depend on whether the contract already included subsequent children.

My contract always stated X and subsequent children. I would not expect my other duties to decrease with the arrival of a new baby but I would expect my employers to be understanding if I'd had a hectic day and hadn't got all the ironing done for example. I also wouldn't expect a payrise although I had annual payrises written into my contracts.

Your friends needs to sit down and discuss the issue with her employers and perhaps suggest methods of helping the baby through this 'witching hour'. Colief is great for colic, baby massage? Does the baby have a dummy or could she use one to help calm the baby whilst the mother is out?

My two children were very cranky from 7-10pm in the early weeks. I became adept at eating my food whilst bouncing baby in the bouncer with one foot. Not ideal but you do what you have too.

i cant believe they are just going out and leaving her to deal with it, what selfish people, how could you leave your baby when it is so young and exclusively breastfed. At 8 weeks old babies feed almost constantly and are so whingey in the evening, especially if colicky. I think your friend should definately say that she doesnt think this was part of the deal and that their baby is unhappy and so is she. If they dont agree I would find someone who did appreciate me as they obviously dont give a shit.

She has 2 nights babysitting in the contract so really they arent asking any more of her. Its not like the contract just required her to work an extra hour twice a wk and now its 3hrs,the whole evening twice a wk would of been included in it.
Where I think the parents are wrong is not providing a bottle.I understand they want to exclusively bf but they cant have their cake and eat it really.They either need to stay in/take baby out until baby can go longer stretches or provide a bottle

I do think it is unreasonable to expect her to babysit the baby - I think she should renegotiate the contract. Things have changed quite dramatically from when she initially agreed the contract.

As they are a live in nanny, they are I presume paid an annual salary on top of having acomodation provided. So why different rates for different things? Caring for a baby during the day and during the evening can be very much the same job. A nanny caring for a baby during the day can have times when that baby is asleep. A nanny caring for a baby in the evening can have times when that baby is awake. That's the way it goes.

When baby gets older they will probably sleep more in the evening. This phase does not usually last forever, it will get easier. So if more pay is wanted now, will less pay be wanted later?

surpriseme looking after an 8 week old baby is a hell of a lot different than looking after older children, I dont know how you can think its not!

I think the family are being unreasonable, unless they leave the nanny with some means of feeding the baby that works (no point leaving a bottle if the baby won't take it), and they can work out how to get all four of the kids to bed - not easy.

My little one always cluster-fed in the evenings, the milk supply is low then anyway, and screamed the house down on the few occasions I went out until she was much bigger. But I have known people who have said that it's tough and the baby needs to be in a routine, settle self blah blah. Horrible IMO.

How is the nanny supposed to deal with the other 3 kids when the baby is screaming? I don't think she should have to look after 3DC in the day then deal with a screaming baby two evenings a week.

I guess it comes down to whether your friend is willing to risk her position. If she's been there a long time and the family are happy with her, then she may be in a strong position to chance it and say no.

woahthere- I didnt say that it wasnt different.I said she has 2 nights babysitting included in her contract-which usually means whole evening.Its just a bonus if the children sleep well and you dont have to do any more than put them to bed. This phase of the baby crying is a hard one but its a phase at some point the baby will sleep like the others in most cases-if the family increase the money now for the babysits will your friend then take a pay cut when the baby sleeps through?
Believe me I have been there with my nb charges but its a phase and its what we are paid for.She is paid for 2 nights babysitting.

Blimey, do some mothers ever look after their own children? Why does she need a nanny if she is home on maternity leave anyway?

2 of mine have screamed in the early evening - its quite a usual stage.
I don't think the parents are being unreasonable at all, she's being paid to babysit two nights and week, the only difference now is that she has to do a bit more.

helendee the mum obv wants to help keep her older 3 children in their normal routine and not to disrupt their lives too much with baby no 4

many employers do keep their nanny on while on ml - if they can afford it

im sure if your boss said right go away for 4/6mths without pay then i want you back again, you would tell them to stuff their job and look for a new one

I AM my own boss, I am a Childminder and parents constantly move the goal posts with their needs, all part of the job.