Am I wasting my money and her time? Advice appreciated

[Checkmate]

I've short listed the nannies who've applied to work for me. One of them is young and inexperienced, however is organised and has recently done some day courses (such as first aid), organised nanny insurance, got herself ofsted registered, and I really like her. Great references from her babysitting work too.

I've told her that if we offer her the job, we would like her to some actual childcare training (probably a correspondence course to fit around the hours we need her). We would pay for this, but she would be on a lower hourly rate and called a mothers help, until she completes the training. The job for us is 30 hours per week and initially not much sole charge (as I'll be on maternity leave) so this seems to be an ideal situation for us and her.

The issue I'm finding is that there is little difference in the courses available. There only now seems to be CACHE level 2/3 in Early years/children and young people, and these courses don't seem to cover much about child development or their care, more things like "promoting equality", "context & provisons in early years setting" and "setting up your own home-based child-care service". Although they say they're suitable for nursery workers, childminders and nannies, there seems to be much more content for the former two than the latter!

Am I wasting my money and her time? Is there a better course available, which covers practical things about childcare and child development, rather than the legalities of what needs to happen in nurseries and childminders homes? Should I just concentrate on training her in what I want in terms of the care of my baby, toddler, and older children during ML? Or should I just go for someone older and more experienced?

Any advice very welcome.

I suspect you're looking at the DCYPW which is exactly the same as the old level 3 diploma but comes in units, one of which (necessary for OFSTED registration) covers what you mention. I suspect she's done that one already as a day course for OFSTED unless she did MNT's own brand one. There is still plenty on development in the diploma but TBH there's no substitute for you giving her practical training on how you want things done.

The reason you're finding little difference is because most childcare qualifications have been withdrawn and replaced by this new industry standard one,

I did Cache Level 3 Diploma in Home based childcare course, it covered child development and childcare, it was through MNT and distance learning .However I did at the same time started to study with OU, doing E100 course, which was really much better than the diploma, I can certainly recommend it. And no, you don't waste her time and yours, as a childcare practitioner training is very important, a certain knowledge of child development is a must!

My advice would be to forget the courses and go with your instincts. When I was looking for nanny jobs I had no qualifications in child care at all but experience and on more than one occasion I was given the job over someone with qualifications but without experience.

Hello.

I'm not sure if there are any courses out there specifically for nannies, If she is ofsted registered she should be entitled to the assistance and advice given by your local childcare support officer or you can approach your parent support advisor (normally contactable through your local childrens center) .. I'm a childminder and agree the introduction to childcare practise is more aimed at childminders caring in their own homes.

I would recommend the NVQ 2 and possible progression to NVQ 3 in childcare, learning and development.
Depending on her age she could possibly do this on day release at college whilst your of ML.

Personally, if you have certain ways of doing things that you want her to follw, your own training would be ideal but if your after a qualification I would recommend the NVQ's.

I hope this helps.

Good Luck.
Pippa.

What course has she already done to become Ofsted registered?

What training have you had in child development, learning, play etc?

if you like her and she has great ref thats a real big plus :)

to be ofsted registered she would have had to have done a common core skills, so must have some basic knowledge

Just to the DHC and NVQs have been replaced so what she should be doing is this or the same course with another awarding body.

I think it is best to let her decide what she wants to study.
And/or find someone else.

Nannynick & Frak, just checked through her certificates, she has indeed done

• Trio: Introduction to Childcare Practice
• Cache; unit T/103 Introduction to homebased childcare

(along with paediatric first aid and getting a crb check.) She said they were very short courses she's done alongside a full time job in another sector, to get her Ofsted registration.

Thanks for that link Frak - yes, slightly different variations of that course are all I can find. Very few seem to contain much that looks to me (as a non-professional childcarer) practical and useful to a nanny. But its good to see that there are options available that will be helpful to her, I think I need to find a course that offers these optional modules:

• Work with babies and young children to promote their development and

learning

• Care for the physical and nutritional needs of babies and young children 6 45
• Promote creativity and creative learning in young children 5 35

and put in the contract that she chooses those, rather than options like:

• Lead and manage a community based early years setting 6 45
• Understand how to set up a home based child care service 4 29
• Caseload management 3 21

I'm not trying to say that I think nannies should all be highly qualified. I've always chosen a nanny who is either qualified and switching from working in a nursery, or unqualified with masses of experience of nannying in the past. I have 2 other good candidates who fit those criteria, but for some reason this one is my favourite. DH disagrees, and wants me to choose the most highly qualified (who has a degree).

Thanks very much for all the advice.

Sounds to me like she needs experience, not training. I think hiring her on a lower rate as a MH with a transition into (higher paid) nanny role sounds ideal for both of you. And if you really like her (i.e. the click factor), then that counts for a lot. I'd go for it.

She's very keen to do the training though (partly because her GCSE's are all D's/E's so she wants some qualifications to give her more confidence) and its not much of an expense (I'll save £3500ish if I choose her rather than the graduate, and course will cost £400 ish) so it's a good way to keep her happy.

I do agree that experience is what she's missing more than training, especially as I have a large family 95 children once this one is born) so once I'm back to work its a big responsibility, though I recently switched to running my own business so I will be around at home a lot.

Those optional modules should be available through most distance learning providers like MNT or the NEC. I agree they'd be more beneficial as a nanny and hopefully she will take the same view!

Assuming you didn't have an NNEB nanny before the content of the course in terms of compulsory elements hasn't changed that much and anyone wanting to work in Early Years or as a nanny would be picking option modules which suit that career path. If you're paying I reckon you can limit the options but give her a decent range including ones you might think are slightly tangential to nannying. You can find more detailed specs for each unit if you're at all in doubt from the name.

Home based child are service isn't that bad a module! It has a pot on working in partnership with parents but it will repeat what she's already studied!

Finally she's your favourite for a reason. Go with your feelings. You'll be working closely at first so it's important you get on, she seems keen to learn and you're prepared to invest tine in training her. Win-win.

£400ish? Where are you finding that as it's a fab price.

Most are £1k+ - MNT is one of the cheapest at 3 lots of £395 (so just under £1200) and the NEC is average at £1695.

That should be (5 children once this one is born)! Not 95

this is the one she's suggested she do, and it says its £375.20 if you pay upfront.

Gotta do the school run now, more later

Now that is aimed at nursery workers. Nannies don't implement the EYFS. There will be a big focus on planning and evaluating activities, doing observations and adhering to the EYFS framework. It's not regarded as a full and relevant level 3 qualification either.

Yes, I thought that one was a bit pants. I've told her to look for the one you linked to; its available at our local college, with mostly coursework but 1 day in college from 10-1 (which is fine for me for the first year of her employment) and they've told her it'll probably be free for her, because she's so young.

Just waiting for confirmation of this - if its the case we'll offer a cash bonus at the end of the first year of employment, to be paid if she has completed her course, and learned lots "n the job", as well as increasing her hourly rate at that stage.

Got her coming for a 2nd interview on Saturday to meet DH and the older DC; he's still adament that he prefers the other one (who I like too.) So complicated.

I would also put something in the contract that says if she leaves before x she reimburses the cost of the course. Or maybe half?

Good tip, thank strix.

You have 5 95 children so have experience of caring for your own children but you might not have any formal qualification in childcare, yet you have managed.

She has already done some courses - from the sounds of it those courses would be sufficient to register as a childminder, though not to work as room leader in a nursery.

You mention that you would want her to a correspondence course... I would wonder if just buying some books would be as good. For example:
From Birth to Five Years: Children's Developmental Progress - an old publication but still one I expect is in use as it sets out how a child would be expected to develop over the first five years, thus can help identify when a child has slipped significantly below norm.
Child Development: An illustrated guide
Toddler Taming
Playful Parenting

You could also add some cook books, such as My Daddy Cooks: 100 Fresh New Recipes for the Whole Family (also see the www.mydaddycooks.com website for some recipes, plus I find many of the recipes here on Mumsnet useful.)

Those four I feel would give a good grounding in child development, dealing with unwanted behaviour and emotional needs of children in the 0-10 age range.

I don't think there is any specific course for nannies, even now with the new homebased care courses (as I suspect they are aimed at childminders - has anyone done one recently... is it suitable for nannies or was it more for small group care, such as by childminders?).

What skills don't you think this nanny has?

She has great references from babysitting (has any of that been times when children were not in bed?)

Should I just concentrate on training her in what I want in terms of the care of my baby, toddler, and older children during ML?

I think that would be useful. Then once you are back at work, then she could do a distance learning course to backup learnt knowledge on the job plus from the books. The course would give her a certificate, though the value I feel is in the hands on work with children of mixed ages.

I completed the Nanny Level 3 Course with N.E.S.T.
I'd previously attempted to do the Diploma in Childcare & Education and NVQ3 in Childcare but found the courses too long and was unable to fit it in with my hectic schedule!

The Nanny Level 3 was a short course but much more intense as you only have up to 6 students in the class so there is more help and understanding from the tutor - who was absolutely fantastic!

I'll pm u the details as not sure if I'm allowed to name names/websites on here??

Does NEST still offer the Nanny course... can't see it on their website, though did find something about it in the Google cache.

NEST withdrew their nanny course. I vaguely remember whispers on the agency grapevine about it being misrepresented as equivalent to things it wasn't.

Someone on NJ just completes the DCYPW. The DHC was very CM focused with nannies being an add-on, the new diploma is supposedly much better.

But again as most others gave said what she lacks is experience, and she needs hands on training more than book learning and how to write assignments.

For her personal progression I see why she would want to do a course but then she needs to commit to the one that will give the most options rather than take shortcuts.

My opinion is that the courses dont teach you much anyway

I did my degree, then did CACHE NVQ3 Early Years education. I know this exact course doesnt exist any more, but im sure it has a similar name with maybe 1 or 2 different units making at "a different course".
I did it while nannying and my assessor visited me at work for the practical assessment.

I was shocked (honestly) at how ridiculously easy it was! I swear to god a couple of the work sheets (safety in the home) that we did, i did the VERY SAME ONES while at primary school!!!!!! (because i had a degree they didnt make me do level 2 1st!)

(though i wasnt used to being able to just copy from books as "gospel truth", had been used to evaluating & referencing peer reviewed journal, not plagerising someone elses work!)

I think people can be natural with children, most mums dont have childcare qualifications and bring up lovely children. She clearly wants to work with children and has a genuine interest in them, so I'd be happy to go with that.

Being qualified made job finding a lot easier for me. Much easier to be a qualified nanny, rather than only experienced, but I do wish parents themselves realised what courses these people had passed!
A nanny friend did the official course thing (home based) so as to be qualified enough to be on the ofstead childcare approval scheme register. It was a book of common sense (IMO) (answers) then about 50 multiple choice answers. Id suggest that if you gave the form to most year 7s, without revision they would probably pass!
I had to go round just to look (and laugh) at the form.

That's such a useful insight nannyl, thanks.

You and nannynick both point out that mothers don't usually have qualifications, and manage. Speaking personally, I found it very hard to start with as a mother, as DH did as a father. I would like a nanny who doesn't almost drown the baby the first time they give them a bath, like we did . Phds in statistics and economics weren't vey useful to us when it came to childcare!
My nanny needs to be able to respond to the competing needs of a wide variety of ages, which it's taken me years to get used to (though I love it now), including helping older DC with homework. DH said last night than his reservation with this young nanny isn't her lack of nannying qualification, it's her lack of qualifications in general; he thinks she'll struggle with our older DC. Ive realised I have been thinking more in terms of the care of the younger DC, rather than all of them.

Thanks for all the advice.