Do I need to pay while my dd is at nursery - I have been quoted hourly rather than daily rates

[newtothisinlondon]

I am looking for my first nanny and need help before and after dd is at nursery, (Mon - Wed only). Nannies have quoted hourly rates to me. Is it fair to assume this does not include hours while dd is at nursery?

Hi I personally have never used a nanny before, but I would have thought the hourly rates couldn't include when the child is actually in the care of the nursery. It would be for the time before nursery and the time after she leaves the nursery.

Eg: nanny 2 hrs before nursery
child in nursery 3 hrs
nanny 3 hrs after nursery.

The nanny would be paid for 5 hrs as for the other 3 hrs she does not have care of your child, the nursey does.
Hope this helps ????

I would not suggest assuming either way. You as the employer decide how much you are paying and for what. If you are defining the job as being say 7am-9am and then 3pm-7pm then that is the hours of work.

If you wanted the nanny to collect your child from nursery in the event of your dd having a minor illness, or nursery being closed for some reason, then nanny would be on-call during the period of time your dd is at nursery.

What are the hours involved? Is the nursery open all year round? Who would be responsible for collecting your DD if she was ill at nursery?

In all my nannies jobs if a child has gone to nursery and I have been required to drop off pick up and be on call I have been paid but often used the time to do the children's ironing, sort toys, plan outings and such so I could devote time when children were home to giving them my full attention

Thx for comments. Hours are 2.5 hours before (including nursery drop off), 2.5 hour break and 4 hours (including nursery pick up). Full day is 6.5 hours of work - or 9 hours including breaks!

I wouldn't expect nanny to be on-call during the time dd is at nursery, nor are there other jobs required around the house. Because of my working hours - if dd was sick then I would probably take whole day off anyway and during school holidays I would arrange the week differently (likely to have family to help out so I would just keep nanny on same number of hours per week, all year round and can customise the school holidays arrangements to fit the nanny).

What do you think?

Read the thread titled nanny pay when ds starts nursery. It's a current debate, which seems to be in favour of paying the nanny.

The norm tends to be that nannies are paid while there charges are at nursery so that is probably what applicants are assuming. You will need to make it clear on the ad if you don't plan to.

However that's based on the norm in jobs where the nanny is already in post and contracted to work those hours anyway.

I asked a similar qu (do I need to pay while dd is at nursery) - thx to HSMM for referring me to this thread. Except I am setting a new contract - no pay cut - which would be 6.5 hours per day excluding nursery or 9 hours per day inclusive. I was wandering what nannies are expecting as they quoted hourly rates rather than daily rates. The thoughts here are very helpful - but would the facts change if stated upfront?

Sorry - that is the message I meant to post on the thread to which HSMM was referring! Well - I am now joining both discussion threads together - if there is anyone who knows how to link please do so!

it is normal for nannies to be paid while children are at nursery, especially if they take AND collect.

nanny would typically go to your house, sort laundry / do some cooking / sort kids toys etc... ie stuff thats easier to do when children arnt demanding your attention

Link to the other message thread

As you are at the advertising stage, I feel you can advertise for exactly what you want. However, you may find that you don't get anyone applying.

It is a short period of time when they are not doing any physical work with your DD, so what would they do during that time... it may not be that practical for them to go home and come back again. It may suit someone but I would have thought that it will not appeal to many nannies, I know I wouldn't consider it.

There are some other things to consider which may or may not complicate things:

Holiday Entitlement - would need to be done in Hours, rather than Days, as the nanny is working a split day... so in theory could take morning or afternoon off, or both.
Travel to/from Nursery - I feel that the nannies travel time from Nursery back to your home, and from your home to nursery should be included in their working time, even though DD isn't present on those journeys.
During nursery holiday periods nanny would still be working the split hours, which could then affect possible outings for your DD. For example it may not be worth going to a museum as the amount of time there after travel may not be that much.

Keep in mind that nannies are not paid an hourly salary as such... like many other employees they are paid an annual salary which is split up into Monthly or Weekly payments and may be expressed as being a Per Hour rate.
Try to focus your mind on the annual cost, rather than hourly cost. That way you won't forget about things like holiday entitlement, how things like sick leave would affect things.

If you need it, this message thread includes details of many of the costs involved in having a nanny.

As one of the working days is a Monday, also pay special attention to arrangements for Bank Holidays which can often fall on a Monday (some fall on other days). Would you need your nanny to work those days? Would you require them to take those days off as part of annual leave, or would you give them that day off paid as extra to annual leave?

How come nannies have already applied? Have you already got adverts running which state the working hours including the unpaid period of time?

I would be expecting to pay the nanny for the 2.5 hours of nursery time too

If your child is sick and you take the day off - what will you do with the nanny then?
Have you checked how many weeks of nursery you will get a year?

I would expect any nanny who agreed not to be paid during the hours your DC is at nursery to be desperate for a job and might, therefore, not be top quality.

I would also expect to pay a nanny in those hours too. You say you have nothing for her to do in that time.

Are you not willing to hand over the 'children duties' to her? If you're working surely having your dd's washing and ironing done, bed changed, room cleaned and tidied would help you, you will be paying for that time anyway.

Is she expected to prepare your dd's meals? Wouldn't you rather she was preparing and cooking meals (and maybe batch cooking and freezing some) whilst your dd was at nursery rather than when she was also caring for her?

Would you really take a days leave if dd was sick? And still pay a nanny for a day off? What if she became ill at nursery and had to be collected? Would you come home and collect dd and wait for the nanny to arrive at for her afternoon shift?

I agree with Bonsoir that a nanny willing to take those hours amy not be of the highest quality.

"Because of my working hours - if dd was sick then I would probably take whole day off anyway and during school holidays I would arrange the week differently "

So if your dd is ill then you will leave work immediately to collect her and then care for her whilst she's ill.

Why do you want a nanny? wouldn't it be easier to have her at nursery full time and then do as you say above. The main reason employers choose nannies are because we look after sick children, pick them up immediately from nursery/school and not worry that we have a bussiness meeting/deadline etc.

What Bonsoir said.
It will not be easy to find a good nanny who will be happy with this arrangement. And if someone does accept the post she will probably leave once she finds something better. It doesn't suit a proffessional nanny but perhaps a local mum or student.

How old is your son? Surely there must be some clothes that need washing. What about his meals?

Can i ask what the hourly rate is?

Thx for this. Before reading this discussion, I hoped to pay £200 weekly. This would be salaried pay all year round on the basis of 19.5 hours per week. I would expect to be paying for 4 weeks holiday and all bank holidays. For school holidays, I would like same number of hours - but fit in with nanny's commitments (even if she wants same 2.5 hours break each day). I expect it will suit nanny and me for hours to be consecutive but I am happy to leave that open for now (to be agreed with the nanny). I also have flexibility at work and significant help from family (hence being able to cover for sickness) and prefer to cook dinner and do washing for whole family together (hence nanny would not need to do housework). Of course I could find jobs for nanny if I had to - but I am looking for a nanny not a cleaner and would prefer to treat the nanny as such!

For anyone who needs that converted (thx nannynick for the link) £200 weekly is £9.30 net if I am sole employer but just over £8 net assuming someone else employs nanny for other two days.

The hourly pay sounds good (even if you are in southeast). The problem is that if the nanny has high expenses (mortgage, rent) she will need to work full days. Have you got a local friend SAHM who could do with 2 hours help? (although not sure how this will work with pay/tax).

Or provide a gym membership for those 2 hours?