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Paid childcare

Discuss everything related to paid childcare here, including childminders, nannies, nurseries and au pairs.

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Original poster

CM- Can i take a holiday during a mindees notice period?

22 replies

Mummyto2xx · 09/05/2011 10:36

was just wundering if any of you have been through the same as me,
im a childminder and currently during my last few weeks of pregnancy and still woeking fulltime, i informed parents very early on i intended to take 2 weeks of around the time the baby was born, one parent has recently given me her notice, the thing i am wanted to find out if any of you know (i have in my policies that i give 2 weeks notice for holidays,) could i take the last 2 weeks of the notice as holiday?? as i had already said prior that i would be taking time off around this time? or will i just have to work the last 4 weeks as normal?

any advice on this would be great thanks in advance, i hope iv explained my self properly and use understand whatim trying to explain :0?

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Flisspaps · 09/05/2011 10:49

I would say that if you had already advised parents that you were planning to take these dates, and as you have given the contracted 2 weeks advance warning, that you would be within your rights to take them. It might be that if you are not paid for holidays that you can't claim the notice payment for those two weeks though.

Original poster

Mummyto2xx · 09/05/2011 10:53

thanks for your reply :0) yeh i get paid for my holidays i take, however the last week of there notice will be will none payment as i recived it in advnace at the beginigng of the contract so i guess you cpould still say i was been paid for the last week as i have already had it it that makes sense lol,

also im thinking if i give birth during these next week weeks il need to take time of anyway wont i :0/ but was thinking if i could have the last week or 2 of the notice of then it would be all settled etc ready for baby to come,

OP posts:

Ripeberry · 09/05/2011 14:33

Depends on what contract you use. With NCMA, neither party can use holiday as notice period, so you'd have to work the extra weeks.

Original poster

Mummyto2xx · 09/05/2011 14:47

yeh i use ncma, bummer :0/

OP posts:

leeloo1 · 09/05/2011 15:15

I was told by NCMA that you can take leave if it is agreed by the parents (parents gave 3 months notice to me as they were moving and I was owed 2 weeks leave - they were teachers so I couldn't take it at any time other than the last 2 weeks of their notice period). If I was you I'd remind them that you've informed them that you'd planned to take the holiday and say that you are now clarifying that the dates are ...

If she kicks up a fuss then you might have to back down, but hopefully it'd all be fine. :)

Strix · 09/05/2011 15:24

i think the NCMA says periods of holiday don't count against the notice period, and not that you can't take holiday in the notice period.

If you have to give two weeks notice for hol, then I don't see that her having giving notice to terminate contract should affect it. Give two weeks notice and you have fulfilled your contractual obligation.

Original poster

Mummyto2xx · 09/05/2011 22:10

Strix thanks for your replies im confused i have baby brain at the minute lol, could you please explain what you mean in a bit more detail please as i cant get my head around things at the minute :0(

Leeloo thankss also for your reply imight try that and see what thy say,

OP posts:

minderjinx · 10/05/2011 06:37

I think I'm confused too! Doesn't it also depend how far into the year you are? In other words, if you have been looking after the little one for say ten months then it would be quite reasonable to expect two weeks leave, but if it's say three months, then you couldn't expect that much, and would need to do some sort of adjustment calculation?

Strix · 10/05/2011 12:08

I'm not an expert. And I'm a parent not a CM. But, I recall reading in my NCMA contract that 4 weeks notice to terminate the contract was required. And that notice could not overlap with a holiday period. So, I couldn't give my 4 weeks notice to terminate the contract while she was on two weeks of hols. Presumably this is because she would then return from hols effectively only having two weeks to sort out another mindee.

So, notice period doesn't count in an exist holiday period. But, what you are describing is the other way around. You are looking to take holiday during the notice period. I don't recall anything in my contract which prevents that. And, if I do say so myself, I have a bit of a reputation for reading contracts with fine tooth comb.

What does your contract actually say? (Sorry I don't have my ncma contract handy and as I scribbled half of it out anyway it's probably not very legible. )
What is your holiday notice period (if you have one)?

missymoo2411 · 10/05/2011 18:33

HI STRIX I KNOW MUMMY and she has put 2 weeks notice to take a holiday ,but she had also put in a news letter back in january that she would be taking holidays around may /june and just needs to let parents know of the correct dates 2 weeks before she is wanting to take them .but the parent has just given notice of 4 weeks ,so we think she can take her holidays .yes, but does she still have to work 4 weeks notice as well so inefect 6 weeks ,but 2 off them being holidays .or can she work 2 weeks and do 2 off them as holidays so 4 weeks .

Strix · 10/05/2011 19:25

I see no reason why her two weeks of hols can't fall within the 4 week notice period so long as she gives the two weeks contractual notice of said hols. There are two separate issues here. One is that the parents have given notice. And the other is that OP is taking hols. Each has a required notice period. As far as I know the NCMA contract does not forbid the CM from taking hols in the notice period.

OP, what is it in the contract that you think does fornid this practice? Perhaps there is something I don't recall (but I doubt it).

I can understand the parents might not be thrilled about having to pay hols for a contract they are already terminating. But, as you say, this should not come as a surprise to them. I personally don't sign up to paying for a CM's hols for this very reason. But, if these parents have agreed to pay hols, and agreed 2 weeks notice, then what is being proposed here seems to be fair. Remember you are running a business and you are free to operate as you like within the limits of the law and the agreed contract.

Original poster

Mummyto2xx · 10/05/2011 20:32

hi strix thanks very much for your replies, i think i got muddledupo witht the fact that notice can not be given during the holidays im quite new to cm and this is the first time iv had to deal with this kinda thing plus been pregnant its hard to know for certain when ur LO going to arrice its all what ifs isnt it :0/ but been so close to the back end of my pregnancy now knowing thatone my mindees are leaving it would give me some ME time (welll kinda asil still have other mindees but not so early i-and late in the day) and as i had already stated to parents intended to take time off it seems like a good idea for me to still do so,

im now thinking tho as its mid week of the 1st week i may only be able to take one week on the last week of the notice as i would have needed to let them know begining of this week for meto have 2 weeks with giving them 2 weeks notice if that makes sense lol.

look forward to hearing back from you,its been nice to listen to someone eho knows what they are talking about :0P

OP posts:

Original poster

Mummyto2xx · 12/05/2011 14:28

iv spoken to ncma and the lady wsnt very helpful at all althought sahe did say yes it was ok, and that was about her only 3 words to me left me feeling like she didnt listen to me one bit like what iwas saying,iv also spoken to a lady from childcare team and she said yes although the parents prob wont be too happyabout it she cant see there been a problem, however i still feel like iv nbot had my answers properly would lv something in writing thst i could show the parents regarding this to say im within my rights to do so. but cant seem to find anything,

has anyone out there read anything similiar anywere that i could download please thanks in advance

OP posts:

Strix · 12/05/2011 14:45

But, you do have something in writing. You have a contract that says two weeks notice is required. So long as you abide by the two weeks notice, you are fine. (assuming of course that is clearly outlined in your contract but I understand it is).

Just inform the parents in the usual way. If you get loads of backlash you might want to reconsider in an effort to keep them happy.

Consider before you do this whether you want happy parents or a week's hols because as the unhelpful lady on the phone pointed out, that may be a choice you have to make.

So, in my opinion, yes, you may upset a few people but you are within your contractual rights to do so.

Original poster

Mummyto2xx · 12/05/2011 17:27

?The childminder must provide their childminding service during the notice period or they could be asked to pay the parent the amount of the fees due in lieu of notice.

i got this bit of info off unresolvable disputes parts of ncma site, and alsospoke to a different person from ncma legalteam and it turns out that i have to work the weeks notice so unfortunatly i cant take the time off if i do go ahead and take it i wont be paid for it, so best to try and work as much of the notice as phyically possible as whatever i end up taking will be unpaid.

a big sy :0( boo hoo nothing ever works out right for me..
im really annoyed with ncma tho for giving me wrong info on the fone in the first place as i wud have never given letter out in 1st place had i been told the correct info from ncma to start offwith.

OP posts:

Original poster

Mummyto2xx · 12/05/2011 17:34

strix thanks for ur reply thats what i thought too aslong as i had given the stated time of notice for a hol that it wud be ok but after reading the bit of info above from the site and speaking to the 2nd member of ncma i now unfortuntly cant apparantlytake it off and will have to trudge on for as long as possible arggghh i was so looking forward to have sometime offoh well not long now only 3 more weeks to go and baby in 4 weeks eeekkk cutting it close

OP posts:

missymoo2411 · 12/05/2011 17:37

cheer up chick , big hugs xxxxx

missymoo2411 · 12/05/2011 17:40

so whats the point off having a contract stating a notice period for time off if its no good when it comes down to it stupid stupid ....

Original poster

Mummyto2xx · 12/05/2011 17:40

thanks luvvie il try :0) xxx

OP posts:

Strix · 13/05/2011 15:16

I think NCMA is wrong. A contract is alegal document which outlines who can do what. How can they say it doesn't? Of course you also have to operate within the law. So, unless NCMA can point you to some employment legislation which prohibits this practice... well I think they are mistaken.

NCMA is not the governing authority here. The contract is.

Strix · 13/05/2011 15:16

I'm not a lawyer, incidentally. So there could be a law I don't know about.

leeloo1 · 14/05/2011 16:39

I think NCMA err on the side of caution with these issues.

In a normal workplace, when notice is given then you work out how many days Annual Leave they'll have accrued by their leaving date and then the employee either takes the days leave or is paid for them. If the employee has taken more days than they'd have accrued then they'd be asked to work an extra day or pay money back.

So, how can it be right that if in a CMing contract its written that the CM gets 4 weeks paid leave; then works for 11 months and has given correct notice to parents that the 12th month will be used as their 4 weeks leave. Parents then give 4 weeks notice they'll be leaving at beginning of 12th month and (according to NCMA) the CM should then work the 12th month - so have missed out on the leave they were entitled to and have given notice of. I know we're self-employed, but could that really be enforceable?

Mummyto2, I'd stick by my earlier advice to talk to the parent, remind them that you'd told them you'd be taking 2 weeks leave and confirm the dates with them.

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