Nanny: what would be the best arrangement?

[Umnitsa]

I would like to have a nanny for DD who will be 1 yo when I go back to work full time in September.

The question is whether in our circumstances we need a live-in nanny:

• DH works very long hours.
• My hours are reasonable but there will be travel (perhaps 1-2 overnight trips per month plus 5 day/ 4 night (Mon-Fri) long-haul travel every three months).
• On the other hand, I will have flexible working hours, working from home on Fridays and possibly one more day a week.
• We do not have any family around so no fall-back option for the evening hours when I travel.
• There is a creche facility at DH's office which we can use a few days a month but it is open only until 6 pm (ie when DH is typically still at work).

Ideally I would like to have a daytime nanny who can be flexible to stay overnight on the days I travel (or work longer hours, ie 7 am - 9 pm). In your experience, is it a common request?

For such overnight stays, will she need to be paid per hour at the normal rate or a discounted flat fee? Any idea of what such fee could be? (We are in London.)

Given that when I work from home (1-2 days/wk) her hours will be 9/9.30 am - 4.30 / 5 pm and on other days, 8 am - 6.30/7 pm, should we agree hourly rate or average daily /weekly /monthly rate?

If we have a live-in nanny, will she need to be paid extra for the days when I am travelling, or this can be stipulated in the job spec as part of the job?

Apologies for the long message and many questions, I will be grateful for you views.

If you have a daily nanny and wanted her to do occasional overnights, you'd probably do something like pay a babysitting rate from the end of her usual work day until midnight, then a flat rate for overnight - eg £8 an hour 7pm-midnight, then £30 midnight-7am. Obviously pay will vary hugely based on the experience and qualifications of the nanny.

I think your options would either be to pay a salary for "core" hours of 50 a week or whatever, and then pay extra hours as overtime when you travel, or work out a weekly/monthly average hours and pay a salary based on that.

As you need quite a lot of flexibility with overnights, I would look for a live-in nanny.

i think you need to find the person first and see what suits them.

Most nannies dont really want to work 7am - 9pm BUT with your normal hours being much much more social 9.30 - 4.30 a couple of times a week, im sure you will find someone happy to compromise, for the odd occasion, especially when known in advance.

Maybe a live-out nanny who comes to stay for the week every 3 months ish when you are away and the occasional overnight too. (If I were looking for a job id be more than happy to do that, though WOULD like a fair bit of notice of when the staying over days were likely to be)

Id agree the salary to be the core hours and pay the over-time seperately. (I assume DH will be there as night so she wont be on duty during the night?)

If she lives close by she may be happy to go home at 9pm anyway, but if she would rather stay, and you have a bed, it would be nice to allow her to choose to stay over if she would prefer to. (I would opt to!)

DH works very long hours

Which are? You need him to realise that he has responsibility for caring for his child, in the same way that you do. So could he arrange things so that he is able to be at home when you do overnight travel or won't be back till late?

Does DH want someone else living in the house? Sounds like you don't... so to avoid having to have a live-in nanny, DH will need to do his share of childcare I feel - even if that just means being home at a certain time most evenings, as you can then recruit a nanny to work say 7am-7pm, 8am-8pm or something like that.

Nannies salaries are in my view calculated as an annual salary as per any other job. It then gets worked out backwards, to result in a salary per hour based on the typical working hours per week. Then any additional hours in a week could be done as overtime either at same rate or at an enhanced rate.

As a nanny I work 2x12 hour days and 2x8 hour days currently, so if your days working at home are fixed, then working shorter hours those days could be arranged. The problem I see is that things may well vary... so if nanny was starting at 9am as it was a day you usually work at home but you were away, could DH be at home until 9am?

If we have a live-in nanny, will she need to be paid extra for the days when I am travelling, or this can be stipulated in the job spec as part of the job?

Might depend how much advance notice there is on those overnights, plus also what happens if you don't go away. If you were to say that the salary was to include say 3 overnights... what if you needed more/less.

Every nanny is different so you'd have to talk with your prospective nannies to see what method would work out best with them. But in my position where I work for a single dad I am a live in nanny where I typically work 7-7 Tuesday to Friday. But my contract has stipulated that I also have to work one overnight weekend a month (Friday-Monday afternoon) (getting one day off either side) and be available for four overnight sessions a month. I get a flat monthly figure and I'm fine about it.

The first thing you need to decide is if you want someone else living in your house - it is a big adjustment.

If you are happy with that, then advertise for either a live-in or live-out Nanny.

Nannies are people too - there isn't a one size fits all

The hours/schedule you need is perfectly fine. Between you, you will be able to sort out how it's best to do the hours/pay - but no, you don't need to pay the day rate all night.

Many thanks for all your advice, it is reassuring that our requirements are not super-unique or unrealistic. You all made a very good point that there is no standard, different arrangements may suit different people.

You are right in that I am not too keen on the idea of having someone live with us, especially because with the exception of travel weeks I will be spending a fair bit of time at home.

The more I think about it, the more it seems that a live-out option is do-able.
Nannynick - I agree with your challenge that DH needs to pull weight here as well; there might be a way for him to come at a more reasonable hour when I am away and then work from home late in the evening if need be.

DH looks at it from a different perspective - he is under the impression that with a live-out nanny our costs will be considerably higher, plus there is potentially more logistical hassle, e.g. when she is late / her kid is sick / we have a last minute change of plans etc. Is the cost differential really massive? Obviously we'll need to provide a room and meals, but would you say the salary is typically 30-40% less for a live-in nanny?

For a live-out nanny, is there an advantage in working 5 days a week, and typically will daily rates be higher if she worked 4 days a week? DH's employer offers 20 free days in creche and we can book more in addition at £50/ day, so one option would be to book creche in advance for a particular day and have the nanny for 4 days a week if it works out cheaper (will it work out cheaper?)

Thank you again for your insights.

Having someone live with you isn't something to go into lightly. Your situation doesn't really require a live-in nanny, just a nanny who is able to be flexible/fit your needs. Personally I'd avoid having anyone live-in unless it was absolutely necessary, I like my own space too much!!

If you can afford to pay a nanny the hours you need a nanny for, then there is no need for your DH to change his work pattern is there? Your DD and your nanny will have a good bond, you really need to look upon your nanny as a third parent as that is essentially how a child (especially a baby) sees them (whether the parent likes to hear that or not!), so DD spending more time with her nanny when you are away isn't a problem.

DH is right in that a live-out nanny is 'more expensive' but he is wrong in that it is more of a logistical hassle - you just need to be clear from the outset what flexibility is required and in turn you need to give her as much notice of your required hours as you possibly can.

'When she is late' - employ a nanny that already lives near by or is prepared to move near by. Don't employ one that has 2 busses and 2 tube rides to get to you - even if she thinks it's doable. A nanny who is late on more than the very odd occasion is no good and one you need to replace.

'When her kid is sick' - not many nannies have their own children. You can choose one that doesn't or you can choose one that does and deal with her required absences as you would with any other employee.

'We have a last minute change of plans' - he needs to get it into his head that even if you have a live-in nanny they still have contracted hours and are not 'on call' 24/7 so if she is due to finish at 6 she is due to finish at 6 it doesn't matter if she is live-in or live-out.

Cost differential - hmm, I would say it's around that, but you would be best to ring the agencies in your area and ask them what they would think it would cost you live-in v live-out. You don't have to use them to check this out. Then you have to take into consideration food/power/water plus the smaller things that add up. However, for me it would be about whether I was prepared to share my living space freely as I would not employ a nanny and expect her to be in her room all the time.

Yes it will work out cheaper to have a 4 day nanny - but not much once you have to pay £50 per day for the nursery. In your position I would hire a 5 day, live out, nanny & use the nursery days to cover the 'her choice' holiday leave & 'save' the other free days for if the nanny is sick, if you need to give her days off for anything else, in the event of her leaving or as a 'bonus' at the end of the time they are due to run out - if they haven't been used you could give her additional paid holiday.

Try thinking more long term. You seem to be thinking about cost cutting, which is fine but overall you want to have something that works, that does not involve too much hassle and that will fit now, plus in a few years time.

Live in salary wise is cheaper than live out but how do you cost up all the costs involved with live in, especially the added loss of privacy - nanny is around 24/7, not just during working hours. A room in London cost be valued at £150k or more... if you had to buy a bigger house to get an extra bedroom, how much would it cost to get that bigger house?

Are you in part of London where there are reasonable rent prices, so a live-out nanny would be able to afford to live somewhere local?

If nursery can cover days at short notice, may be very useful in the event nanny is ill, or when nanny takes holiday.

Chippingin, Nannynick - thank you for the comments.

RE cost of accommodation - we are in the process of buying a house now and, assuming everything goes well, we'll have a 5-bed house for the three of us, so there will be room for a nanny if need be. Privacy / space is a totally different matter, and that is why I am reluctant to go this way.

Good points re how best to use the creche perk - seeing how expensive childcare is, even these free days will save us more than a grand a year! On the other hand, I'd rather DD had one person to care for her, plus dragging a one-year old on the commuter train to the City creche, even with a 15-min commute, seems cruel...