Paying childminder for holidays

[Malachite]

Hello all,

I work term time only and am about to go back to work after maternity leave with my pfb. I found a childminder that I really liked and when I asked if she would do term time only she said yes, but now she has dropped off the contract it states that I have to pay for most of the holidays (9 and a half weeks of the 13 weeks I would not be using). She says this is normal as childminders cannot be expected to hold the place open without pay. I thought that she would be able to fill the place with a child/children who would normally be in school during term time, thereby not losing out on pay. Can anyone tell me what is normal in this situation?

It would cost me slightly less to send pfb to nursery as they do term time only contracts with no pay for the holidays, but quality of care is really what is important and I feel the childminder would be better in that respect. I suppose I am mostly bothered because I think she should have mentioned this upfront when I first asked about term time only. What I am asking basically, is should I have realised I would still have to pay for holidays or should she have told me?

TIA for your help!

It really depends where you are and what other childcare provision there is (holiday clubs etc.) whether she might realistically hope to have holiday any only children. FWIW there doesn't seem to be a lot of demand around here. It also has to be taken into account that most parents will be looking to spend as much of the holidays as they can with their own children, so may only be looking for odd days or weeks = unlikely to want anything near to thirteen. Trying to piece together a workable schedule to meet several other families' needs could be a real headache - as could caring for a succession of unknown children in different combinations. I think it's probably fair to assume that covering her losses over the holidays if you did not pay for them would be highly unlikely. That said, I agree that should have been discussed rather than come as a surprise.

if she's been sneaky about this she might be sneaky about other things.
i'd look for another one

I also work term time only and have a lovely CM that does not charge for any school holidays. She often has extra kids during that time not normally with her.

You asked her for a term time only contract and she hasn't given you one. She's either a little dim or very deceptive. Either way I'd look for another CM, she can't be the only one in your area surely?

Plenty of CM's offer term time only contracts as they either have siblings of the children they mind or their own DC and are happy to have less mindees in the holidays. Obviously it doesn't work for all CM's and that's reasonable enough too - but what is not reasonable is to say yes to a TTO contract then give you a full time one!

Also, I know quite a few CM's do charge a percentage for the weeks not used - sometimes up to 50%, so you need to ask lots of questions!

I was very reluctant about having a term time only mindee in Early years group as I have only one space for that age group registered with Ofsted. I thought about it and decided to charge a higher rate for a TTO contract and not charge in school holidays at all. The alternative would be to charge a 50% retainer in holidays. I just simply cannot afford to have no income for 13 weeks of the year as my bills still need to be paid. There is no call for holiday only care in my area.
Maybe she is new and did not understand what you expect. I wouldn't just throw the rattle and go elsewhere if you liked her. Maybe it's worth talking to her to see if you can reach a compromise in some way.

She probably thought you meant would she mind only having to look after your child term time. If you didn't actually ask if she would be charging full time maybe that's why she didn't mention it....I am a cm and find the business practices of many cms to be rather underhand and a bit high and mighty - this is because I was self-employed in another capacity for years before becoming a cm. I would never ask to be paid when not working for instance, offer term time only contracts and don't charge for anyone's holidays. If you adjust your fees you can earn just as much this way without making parents feel ripped off, or having to feel dishonest about your business (which makes me uncomfortable). I know all the arguments for charging 'retainers' in the holidays, but like I say a slight fee adjustment is all that's needed so as a cm you don't lose income.
I know one cm who charges 50% to her term-time only charges in the holidays then sells the space for holiday mindees as well. 'That's business' she reckons.

Thanks for the responses! I had a really hard time finding any childminders in our area that could take pfb so I'm reluctant to start looking again this close to my return to work. I don't know that she was being sneaky exactly, it was clearly spelled out in the contract, I just think she should have explained when we were talking face to face. Think I will have to discuss this with DH a bit more.

I offer term time only contracts, but when it is not term time i charge you a 50% retainer to keep your space open. If you dont want to pay that then i cannot gurantee that your space will still be there as it may be filled up.

It may have just been a misunderstanding when you met, or something. Have a chat with her and see if she'll offer you a term time only contract. I used to, but I don't any more, because I lost so much money. Hardly anyone wants a holiday only space for an under 5. Over 5s are in a completely different age bracket and would not fill the same space.

Anyway, again, just have a chat and see if it was a misunderstanding by one of you, or if there is some sort of comprimise.

I would never ask to be paid when not working for instance, offer term time only contracts and don't charge for anyone's holidays.

Ahem! That's your decision and you're perfectly entitled to do this. I do object to the implication that anyone who doesn't do as you do is, to quote you, "rather underhand and a bit high and mighty".

Just my opinion - and only comparing to other forms of self-employment. Can't see why cms, out of all the self employed people in the world, think they are entitled to charge this way, that's all.

And like I say I do earn/charge the same over the year as a cm who is having to go round justifying charging when not working. This is simple maths, but does not leave parents thinking they are not only giving you money for nothing but having to take time off work into the bargain (for instance cms who charge for bank holidays but refuse to work them)

They are entitled to charge what they like. They are self-employed. Their self-employment is a bit different from many other forms of self-employment in that they work for several clients at the same time.

Accusing the childminders who charge for their holidays (some of whom are on these boards) of being underhand and rather high and mighty is bang out of order. I charge because I do work, by the way. I fully recognise that it's none of my business how anyone else chooses to charge. I might tell parents on these boards what my pricing structure is for comparison: I don't pass judgement on another childminder for charging differently to me.

Some parents prefer to have their costs broken down in this way rather than having the childminder raise fees and charge a flat fee. Those childminders often have to justify their higher fee and some parents might consider it sneaky and underhand to have hidden costs. Did you think about that?

Whatever your opinion, you have no right to judge another childminder's fees in this way. Are you party to their contracts and all their charges? They might think some of the things you do are unfair.

underhand and high and mighty

oh dear nervatious

look, the CM offers a service, and parents choose to accept the terms or not, if not them they go elsewhere; we are not privy to each individuals modus operandi, as tanith says

OP, I think the CM may have wires crossed, give them a ring and clarify

Ooops touched a nerve there I see..... Don't you think charging 50% and then selling the space for full price to another parent is underhand?

And high and mighty because it's often quoted on these boards during arguments about cm charges that 'you get paid paid during your holidays well so should I' which is of course true, but when self employed you do actually pay yourself from the fees you take in, so it's up to you how you 'get paid'.

And yes, Tanith, it is sneaky and underhand to have hidden costs, but obviously being upfront about one's pricing structure from the start is something all professionals do, I'm sure including all cms on these boards.

PS If i was doing something which others felt strongly was unfair I would appreciate the feedback, that's what discussion boards are for. It may make me think and improve on my practice or my business practice - debate is useful imo, and getting offended is a bit of a waste of energy (no offence)

I have a term time only contract for DS2. The childminder looks after him during shool hours in term time only. I am not charged for inset days, her hols, her sick time, etc. But would expect to pay in full if we don't show up for sickness or any other reason. We do pay her for Bank Hols which fall in term time. We do not pay for inset days, which she does not work. I do, however, pay a highish hourly rate.

Awfully cheeky to say yes to term time only and then throw 9 1/2 weeks of hols your way. That's ludicrous. Term time only means no contract outside of term dates. You might also want to check that your term dates coincide with hers. My CM and I have defined our term dates as whatever the school publishes on their website.

your lucky she didn't charge you for 52 wks per year!
I do term-time only contracts with a half rate retainer for school holidays - obviously i do have to be available to work if required if given 4 weeks notice and topped up to full pay. Plus i take all my {paid} holidays in school holiday time.

i think she should of given you a sheet with her terms and conditions clearly set out at your first meeting.

Don't you think charging 50% and then selling the space for full price to another parent is underhand?

There's no evidence that this is a common issue. I believe you're talking about charging a retainer. That place belongs to the person who is paying for the retainer and they can (and often do) request to use it at any time. My policy is that, if I'm able to fill the place, I refund. Some childminders wouldn't fill the place. You have no evidence that childminders who charge retainers then sell the space to someone else. You're unreasonable to make a sweeping accusation of underhandness just because some childminders charge retainers during holidays.

Accusing those who don't charge exactly as you do of being "underhand and high and mighty" is not debating; it's being insulting and personal, and just a bit high and mighty yourself, don't you think?

Aha. I mean precisely what i say in this instance - I do have evidence that at least 2 childminders in my area charge a retainer then sell the space for the holidays for older children. They put in a 4 week notice period for using the space so that they can give the same notice to the people they have sold the space to..... I think you are unreasonable to assume that, 1) I don't know what I'm talking about, 2) I have no evidence for what I say, 3) I unfairly accuse all cms of underhandedness when I only mean most of them. I'm sure your business practices are exemplary!

It's not being personal either, as you pointed out it's a sweeping generalization right?