CMs - Charges (struggling with ever increasing food prices)

[namechangingforthis]

Hi all

I don't know what to do and was wondering if you guys could help me decide what I should do for the best?

I currently offer an all inclusive service so my fee per hour includes all drinks, snacks, breakfast, lunch & dinner if needed, nappies, wipes, outings, sun cream etc.

Unfortunately my dh lost his job a year and half ago and is still out of work :( He was receiving Job Seekers Allowance but this has stopped and although our household income was only £9k last year, we're not entitled to means tested JSA as I work more than 24 hours a week!

We have huge debts, a lot of which is as a result of problems which we couldn't afford to get fixed so put on credit cards etc (boiler problems, gas leaks, car problems etc etc). Unfortunately we've got to the point that we're a minimum of £150 down per month and running out of credit card and overdraft facility. Once these have gone, we're stuffed :( Now this isn't the parents problem, it's ours HOWEVER if we can't afford the mortgage, eventually we could potentially loose the house therefore meaning the end of my childminding business :( This WILL affect the parents.

Soooo, I'm thinking long and hard about the whole situation and how we can reduce costs. One thing I've noticed is the huge increase in food shopping, it's amazing how much stuff has gone up and I just can't afford to keep buying the 8 different fruits, all the special cereal bars and all that stuff, it's costing me a fortune and my food bill is huge.

One parent yesterday insisted I should go back to charging for food and then parents can choose whether or not to use mine or send their own. They said that the parents are saving loads currently by me supplying all this food at the same cost (I didn't increase my fees this year like I usually do).

WWYD in this situation? Should I go back to charging for meals? I never charged for snacks in the past but I used to charge for meals a couple of years ago.

My fee review takes place annually in Sept/Oct, I notify them of all changes by the end of October and the increase starts from 1st Feb the following year. On 3rd October I notified parents I wasn't increasing at that time and this is part of what I put in the letter:

I am pleased to confirm that although the cost of living continues to rise, I have decided to postpone any increase in fees for the time being and will therefore not be making the usual increase from February 2011. Instead I will review my fees once again in February 2011 and if I feel at that stage an increase is necessary, I will notify you and the increase will be from June 2011.

I was hoping to continue with no increase (and to be honest, I'd forgotten I'd mentioned I'd review again in Feb ) but I just cannot afford to continue like this if I want to keep my business (unless by some miracle dh gets a job soon!). Obviously I never confirmed anything in February to say yes or no to increasing in June and if I decide to increase after all, I'm still giving more than a month's notice......what do you think? Would that be ok? Tbh, I don't know what other option I have :(

My head is all over the place, I really don't want to upset parents when times are tough but I don't want to loose my home either. What do you all think?

TIA :)

It sounds like you need to increase your fees and review what you buy - can you just buy in season fruit and veg, not buy cereal bars are the neccesary snacks - can you not make healthier ones or buy when on offer or have an alternative.

Just buy 2 different cereals and have toast (buy value wholemeal) and buy the large pots of natural yogurt and let the children have honey or fruit or jam on it or puree own fruit.

I would suggest you continue to include meals in fee but parents provide own wipes and nappies and suncream etc.

Poor you, sounds like you are struggling at the moment, I do hope things get better.

Anyway, I can't see this being a problem. I charge separately for meals £2 for a dinner £1.50 for lunch, but do provide fruit snacks. I had 8-9 children last week and couldn't afford to feed them all (not to mention the time it would take). A lot of my children are part-time so it would be unfair of me to charge an all-inclusive fee for those that wouldn't have food.

Do you charge considerably more than other childminders in your area?

I am surprised at the amount you include. I wouldn't include sun-lotion or nappies (I do have wipes). Keep outings down to a minimum. What are the special cereal bars? You probably need to re-assess what you are giving the children as it doesn't necessarily have to be fancy. I have 2 children with severe allergies and its amazing what I can make with basic ingredients.

I noticed that my petrol bill is getting silly and have informed parents that I will do different outings on alternate weeks as I live in a rural area and have to travel to get anywhere.

Good luck I am sure your parents will understand as it is getting tough for many of us.

op, I think you are being very reasonable and honest and the parents will appreciate that and stick by you

good luck with everything

You sound like a really caring person and you know that something needs to be done.

I think the parents will be quite happy to pay a little extra each day for food, especially if they are happy with you and the care you provide. It's just one of those things.

Just explain to them , like you have here, that as food is so expensive you will need to start charging a small amount. Also suggest that they could provide the child with a packed lunch. One of mine comes with a food bag including cereal (dried eg a wheatabix), lunch(sandwich& pud), dinner(which I reheat)and pud, and a snack.

I know of a local childminder who provides a meal, but not pudding?

I think you will be pleasantly surprised. Good luck, sounds like you are doing a good job.

Oh, just popped back whilst dh watches kids in the garden (reg'd assistant for adhoc occasions), didn't expect any replies yet so thanks :)

Re the food I buy.......cereal bars are just offered at breakfast for those who want them (Organix range) but yes, I need to not offer these I guess (just hate it when the kiddies ask for stuff and I have to say I don't have them). The fruits I currently purchase each week are:

Apples
Oranges
Pears
Bananas
Kewi
Melon
Dried Apricots
Raisins

and then when on offer etc.......grapes, strawberries, blackberries but these are rare tbh as I can't afford them.

Fruit is offered at snack times and then after meals (i.e. they usually have a pot of yoghurt and then fruit although now they often want a kewi and melon and........) Do you lovely ladies let them choose what they want or do you offer something set? I don't let them have the same thing twice i.e. if had melon at snacktime, they have to have something different for next meal and so on (as I tell them they need 'variety'). I currently get the little pots of fromage frais but maybe I should get natural yoghurt and put fruit in? Just worry they won't eat it as tried a couple of times before and they don't touch it :( Would they if that was all that was ever on offer do you think?

As for cereals.......I offer 5/6 different sorts Do you think it's fair for me to just do 2 then? Often they'll have toast anyway (some ask for crumpets but I keep explaining that they're lucky they have the variety I offer as is it!!)

As for nappies and wipes.......tbh I don't mind these being included (and currently only have 1 in nappies and they only come 2 days a week), I started including them when I had 4 children aged 18 months and under at a time and got fed up with loads of bags - I just bought a BIG change bag and started to supply my own so it was easier! Suncream though.....yes, that's not cheap so I think I'll go back to them supplying it. I don't know anyone else who supplies this for them (HSMM - I'm local to you , not sure if you include this in your all inclusive?)

As for price......I charge £4.30ph which is not the cheap end but I know some who charge more (having said that, it's not so easy to keep an eye on charges now they've taken away the central database!)

Outings - yes, this is a lot and I'm now only offering 1 paid for day out a week in the school hols and had to take 1 particular place off my list (which is an hour each way and cost me about £80+ last time (prices shot up as been taken over by another company). I said I'd take them on occasion if I had a couple of £ contribution towards it. Thank god they've FINALLY upped the mileage allowance after all these years!!!

Right, best go and relieve dh, it's time for lunch shortly anyway!!

Thanks for your thoughts, keep them coming as I'm serious about making changes to what I provide as long as it's still fair to paying customers :)

x'd posts. Thanks crazybabies :) They are all very pleased with my service and I don't think they'd even consider leaving because of this (I've had most for 3-4 years, a couple from 8 weeks old - we're like one big family :)). I just feel so bad about changing things. My parents are fantastic, some cook me and dh gorgeous meals 'just because', a few buy me beer 'just because', I often get random things like choc bars, other snacks, pots of cream, pack of choc fingers etc etc, I've had a couple of mums take me to the local posh spa for an evening treat, i get expensive massages and various other lovely presents for bdays, Christmas etc. I could go on and on about how lovely all my families are. This is why I find it SO hard to have to change the way I charge things :( But what can I do? They need me to be able to work and without a home I can't.

I feel bad as I knew our situation was bad but sort of put it to the back of my head and it wasn't until I sat down at the weekend and did a proper budget plan thing, that I realised how much of a loss we've got each month. All this without the problems we keep getting which is usually hundreds of £s each time! (and we seem to have had stuff like this every single bloomin month since he lost his job!). Oh and it doesn't help that within 6 weeks we've paid out for 2 x £245 load of road tax!!! grrrr

Anyway, moan over. What I need to do is sort this out so we can get out of this mess, starting with me stopping wanting to give the kids everything they want!!

My CM doesn't do food - I just send him in with all the food he needs. Would you consider this? I suspect you might have to lower your fees but you may save on the food.

I'd LOVE to have parents supply their own food but somehow don't think my lot will want to. I'm certainly happy to offer to do that but I don't want to really annoy those who haven't the time to sort this so would want to offer both options. If they provided food, I'd be happy to not increase my fees although not sure I'd want to lower my hourly rate, I want 1 set rate for all parents (but they WOULD be having a lower rate anyway as I'm probably going to have to up my fees a slight bit, I used to annually so they are used to it). Having said that, there is 1 family who pay me £5ph - I wasn't happy but they absolutely insisted ages ago as thought I was worth more. So for that family, I won't charge anything extra as that's only fair.

So how much (if I do) shall I increase? I usually up them by about 20p per hour but don't want to up so much this time as would seem unfair? I suppose it depends on whether or not I start charging for food? Oh I hate this!! :(

Sorry, but you have to be practical here.

Of course the children love cereal bars, fromage frais, melon, strawberries etc, what child wouldn't? They are children and evolution means that they are going to seek out the tastiest and most enjoyable food!

You are supposed to be running a business. At the moment it is not a business, it is a hobby of looking after children for families you like. This hobby is costing you money each month.

While this is costing you money, they are out earning money. Who is winning here?

All the beers, cakes and choccy fingers in the world will not help you when you have baliffs at the door. Sorry to say, but at that point these lovely families will be dropping you like a hot brick.

Simplify your food:

Two cereals plus porridge
Ordinary fruit and 1 fancier fruit only twice a week.
Alternate fruit snacks with veg snacks like tomatoes or peeled carrot sticks.
No cereal bars unless you make them yourself during a cooking activity.
No more fromage frais - buy the big tubs of yoghurt and dish them up.

Provide breakfast and snacks. Charge for lunch and supper - give parents the option of providing their own if they wish.

Best wishes.

You sound really lovely and hope I have such a good realtionship with the childminder when my 8mth old starts in the a mth time.

I think def only offer 2/3 cereals maybe weetabix and porridge as you can buy value range fairly cheap and then one other (buy whats on offer) and then offer toast, and buy value natural yogurt to add fruit to (or as a treat buy some value version of co-co pops and they can add these like the muller corners). You can occasionally have things like crumpets and pancakes as these are cheap enough but dont have them all the time - even scramled eggss on toast works out quite cheap as a filling breakfast. STOP BUYING THE EXPENSIVE CEREAL BARS THEY ARE A RIP OFF - search for hugh fearnlet whitting stall (prob spelt that wrong) cereal bar recipe and make with the children

Fruit should become a bit cheaper as more available in summer so tends to be cheaper.

Offer choice with in reason to the children ie - you can have x or y not what would you like.

Hope you manage to sort it all soon and good luck to your husband in his job search (as you sound so lovely perhaps other parents would want to use you and husband could become a full time assistant?!?!)

Good heavens! I'm sorry to put it so bluntly, but that is a ridiculously large choice to offer children. I'm a parent and I would be absolutely astounded if my CM offered that much variety!!!!

Definitely do a price increase. With the cost of food going up and the price of petrol you know you have no choice, really.

I prefer the CM preparing a meal - TBH I find it easier for my DS to try new foods when other children are eating them, so at the CMs is an ideal time and if everyone had their own meals which they brought in that wouldn't happen. (TBH, how difficult would you find it if Child A had a meal that Child B wanted?)

Dh on duty again (handy having him around sometimes ).

I can assure you this is a proper business for me, I may love doing it (well, not always but most of the time) but it's certainly not a hobby. My problem is more wanting to offer the best but I agree that yes, I've been offering too much. This started because I wanted my own children to have the variety (I could afford it then as dh was working and we didn't have this level of debt!) and of course I can't let my children have certain stuff but not the others. But times are tough and I've told my 8 year old that we simply can't keep buying expensive stuff so things will be changing. He's old enough to understand. My 2 year old will get the message eventually!!

This business always earnt me plenty of money (I get near or sometimes over £3k a month but of course that's before expenses) but I work very hard for it. The problem is my dh being out of work. The reason I didn't change things earlier was because it seemed unfair that my personal situation with dh being out of work should change what I offer to parents. Obviously now, I have no choice and yes, the price of food has gone up a lot and I haven't changed with that.

But I'm guessing you were trying to make me feel better?

I was going to now ask what you all offer for snacks, what fruit you get in etc. but I think I should start a new thread for that. When I've done that, I will link it here. But in the meantime, feel free to continue with feedback re the charges :)

I am in the same situation regarding the food aspect.

It is costing me more and more each week in food!

The rates I charge are top end for where I live, I provide everything! But the amount I spend on food, trips etc mean that I am really not making that much money anymore (more often a tiny bit!) adding in the cost of fuel too!

I can't charge parents more, as they would go else where, I have no idea how the childminder down the road charges £1.75 less than me and still provide food. She never goes any where so I guess she saves money there.

I'm a parent using a CM and don't expect her to provide food. If my DD is there all day I send her with a lunchbag and some fruit for snacks. I send a sports bottle of water or squash and if emptied the CM refills it at no charge.

I provide suncream, occasional nappies (DD2 has SN and is incontinent when asleep) but not wipes.

She takes them out to free activities such as the library craft sessions and the park and beach, and I pay extra if she wants to do a special trip.

Don't know if that helps at all, but just to let you know that not all parents expect or want an all-inclusive service and may be happier to pay say 4 pounds an hour but provide own food. I'm sure they would understand your situation given the current financial state most of us are in. If it's a toss up between sending your child with their own food or having to find a new CM I know which I'd prefer!

Thanks all, just last quicky whilst dh does last bit of supervising whilst they're splashing in the paddling pool......dh was my full time assistant when he lost my job but lets just say it wasn't suited to him on a full time basis! Shame but I would have ended up killing him! He needed an operation in April and needed at least 6 weeks off so that's when I decided enough was enough and that as it wasn't working, we'd call it a day. I got another variation and kept who I could (on reduced days) and explained that as he needed a long time off work, it wasn't going to work having him as my assistant. He then needed another operation (totally unconnected) in September so tbh, I'm pleased we left it as otherwise my good little business with a good rep would have become unreliable childcare. Tbh, dh is 15 years older than me and totally unfit and just couldn't keep up! lol.

Going to quickly start that other thread about food then must relieve him as he needs to pop out. I might not be back for a while as I'm out straight after work tonight and not back until late.

Thanks everyone for taking the time to post :)

Food thread

Sorry if I was a bit harsh. But I wanted to be really blunt because your financial situation sounds frankly quite dire. If you are coming to the end of your credit then that is very precarious.

I do stand by what I said in that if this is costing you (you = the economic unit of you and your spouse) money then this is not worth your while. If you work all month and are £50 down at the end of it, then you may as well not have bothered and just given out £50 in the street instead.

Also, look at the messages the parents are giving you. One family wanted to pay you more, another family has pointed out that you should be charging for food - they know that they are gaining the advantage. Yet, they will continue taking the benefit of that until you stipulate otherwise because, nice people or not, we all have bills to pay.

I really hope your situation improves.

A few ideas to think about:

• small rate increase
• can breakfast/dinner be done at home (with small snacks mid morn and mid pm)
• fruit/veg on special offer (this should give you a variety of seasonal food)
• parents to pay for pricier outings

Remember, you do not need to provide ALL their nutrition, or ALL their 5 a day.

Hope this helps.

Branchingout - your being blunt is fine, I take no offense :). I will say that the only reason we're in such a mess is because we have a HUGE debt which is costing us HUNDREDS each month. What I get from parents is actually quite a lot as mentioned earlier. So yes, we're in a bad situation and yes, I will sort my prices out but it most certainly isn't my business not earning me money that's the problem, it's my husband loosing his job and not finding one 18 months later that's the problem. We had debt before from past problems but it's just escalated. I will most definitely reduce what I provide but I do charge at the higher end for my area so felt I wanted to offer that bit more considering they are paying more. But the parent who said about me charging extra for food was saying this as we'd had a night out and a heart to heart and when she realised our money problems, she suggested I charged for food. It also doesn't impact them as much as they only have an evening meal once a week. I would usually have had my fees increased in Feb but the families were so very supportive when I had problems last year (dh's operations, we split up in between them both and that was hard, I was having time off for brain/spine MRI scans, other neurology studies etc) that I felt due to this, I shouldn't increase at that point.

Anyway thanks for your input, I appreciate your comments :)

HSMM - I don't think they should have to wait for their evening meal when they are with me until 6pm, some are too young imo. Plus I don't want my own children to have to wait that late for a meal, especially my 2 year old, he would be moaning and moaning for his dinner and he's ready for his bed shortly after mindees go so don't think that would work. Breakfast more doable although I have one who comes at 7am every morning and they live about 15 min drive away so I can't see them managing that, especially as they have a hard time getting them up as it is! Plus again, my boys would end up eating whilst they are here so probably not fair. But happy to ask them to supply food or pay a small fee and then it's up to them. Can I ask something.....I know you've put your prices up not that long ago and also charge by the day, with your all inclusive service do you charge for ANY outings? I.e our local soft play? I pay for these things but have now said I need money towards kidzone if we go again as it's a rip off now!! Shame as the kids love it there.

Hope what I've said makes sense, no time to proof read as not long been home and loads to do before bed.

Thanks again :)

I don't charge for any outings, but I know lots of minders do. I have children here til 6 who have a family tea at home. A cup of milk and a snack - maybe a small sandwich - at about 4 keeps them going. Then you and they can have a quiet family tea at 6.

i provide snacks and lunch but not an evening meal. when my daughter was a baby she always has her dinner while the children were still here as babies have dinner around 4/4.30. as she got bigger we were busier and busier so she ended up not having dinner till the children left. after a while i noticed this want ideal as she was to tired or had clubs to go to after 6. so issued a letter stating that i would be giving my daughter dinner and my assistant would be feeding her children at 5. if parents wanted to bring something that could be heated up then i would happily heat it up and serve it at 5. a few parents started sending things others said no its ok they will get dinner when they go home. it works well. i just send my daughter to the dinning room to eat while the other children continue to play

Sorry I never got back to this when you've taken the time to reply, I was busy sorting some of my other problems out to try and sort this mess out! I'm off this week and so will be making a decision and contacting parents soon.

HSMM - I already do my snack around 3.30/4pm which isn't a sandwich but enough other stuff. I could change this to a sandwich or bigger snack with them having dinner at home, I'm just dead nervous about parents being unhappy about this. Tbh, it would also affect our own bedtime routine quite a lot as ds2 if often ready for his bed by 6.30pm. Will definitely have a think about this one.

Unfortunately my dining area isn't out of the way as such so it would be unfair to feed mine and not others (the dining table is in the kitchen which you have to go through to get to the playroom.

Can I just ask at snack time whether you let them choose out of what you have or do you just plate up what's on offer and they take what they want from that? I do a bit of both at the moment but wondering if it should be me who always decides? I.e. after their meal they get fruit and yoghurt and I've always asked which fruit they'd like (out of the 8 listed on my other thread). And how much do you allow them to have? I.e. one piece of fruit or more?

TIA :)

Answered the snack time question on the other thread.

It is tricky to work around your own children if they have an early bed-time. We always wanted DD to have tea with DH and me, so letting the mindees eat in front of her wasn't fair. Her bed-time was always about 7-7.30pm though. I used to work til 6.45 and then either I cooked tea, or DH had arrived home and started it.

hi namechange
i do know your situation and feel for you you really need to soert it our before as you say you have no home

I have a policy that everyone bring their own suncream with their name and a hat to keep at my house incase the sun comes out

When planning school hol days out i find 4 days where there is no cost ie bug hunt on the park etc and one that cost and just ask parents for £x towards the weeks activities (i dont mind spending upto £5 a week on the child but over that when you have 6 children it gets too expensive)

when shopping i buy loafs/crumpers etc on offer and frezze them then they can be toasted when needed

parents bring their own nappies and wipes which i write the childs name on the packs and when they run low i just ask parents to replace them

i did try bring your own food once but it didnt work well i find children eat better when they are all eating the same foods you could ask parents to pay £ per day (the same cost of a school dinner ie our school charges £1.85 per day for lunch)

try and buy supermarkets own produces

It sounds like you are a fantastic CM but you have to make it work for you.

I would charge a small increase - I think it would be totally reasonable to write to your parents and explain that you didn't increase in February as you had said as you were hoping not to, but you have realised that you cannot continue and charge the same rates.

You really have to cut the food choices. Toast or cereal only for breakfast - a choice of 2/3 home brand cereals is plenty. Ditto fruit - buy what is in season only, again there is no need to give so much choice. Buy large tubs of yoghurt and portion them out. You don't have to make a big deal about this to parents - you are still providing snacks/meals.

Suncream is expensive, just say that you can no longer provide it and ask each family to send in a named bottle/tube.

I would also either stop expensive outings or ask parents to cover the costs.

If you did all of the above I would think it would make a big difference to your finances without alienating parents. I would actually make it clear in the increase letter that these are changes you need to make in order to continue providing your service.