I know people are going to think I am totally out of order but I just have to say (having looked at a few threads over the years on MN) but childminders/nannies/au pairs...

[smilerwile]

Are massively underpaid!

Harriet Full time, Live in, in Essex.

Ah well, live in is always going to be different Grabspoon. Does that include food?

I dont know, i pay my CM £15 for an hour school run, i think that is ££££.

And i have to pay her holidays which irks me as she is self employed and if i pay her holidays i also have to pay for someone else to take dd to school

Yes that includes 3 meals a day and aprox 5 glasses of wine a week

Bloody hell you're not far from me...I bet I could get you a better paying job in a minute. Less than.

Live in is less but that seems too much less. what are your hours/

in my opinion doctors are underpaid

one of my doctor friends, who came out of medical school 3 years ago, and works so many hours (several hours of unpaid over time EVERY shift) actually got paid LESS per hour worked (not hpur contracted) than i got paid as a nanny.

to me that is not fair.... while i was looking after healthy children at home, he was on childrens ward KEEPING THEM ALIVE....

I think it is more the case that some childcare workers, particularly nannies let themselves be taken advantage of when it comes to salary etc. Yes you get Xp/h but when DB or MB is always half an hour in late from work and you don't get paid that because there is always a sorry and an excuse and expect you to drop everything to run and fill their childcare needs because they have been invited to a dinner that they 'just must attend' that evening then it starts to become slighty ridiculous!

I think although it is great for everyone to be flexible the family have to realise that they can't start taking the p*ss because they happen to pay their nanny half their salary or whatever!

I dont think nannies are underpaid, most posts i've seen i've always been amazed at what they earn given you need no qualifications.

CM's can do very well too - each parent pays, no own childcare costs and heat/food/toys etc can all be put down as expenses - most costs they would have incurred anyway as a SAHM.

Nursery room leader salary around £15k gross in my area. A nanny working similar hours (so say a 40hr week) could be on £20k gross.

I used to be an IT&Sales Manager and got £27k for similar hours - that's now 9 years ago.

Very hard in my view to decide what any particular job is worth. In a sales job a lot of salary tends to be commission based, so it's more quantifiable. More pay for more company profit.

Hard to apply that to childcare, especially nannying. A good nanny is priceless but a pay level needs to be set. Ultimately that pay is reflective of what the parents can afford and what the nanny expects to earn.

I work 40-50 hours a week as a childminder and still earn about a third of what I earned before for less hours. It does have its compensations, but it is also true that no matter how excellent I may be at my job, my earnings reflect how good the parents of the children I care for are at theirs.

isn't it down to supply and demand - if nannies cost significantly more - not a lot of people would be able to afford them?

Im a minder. 3 25 per hour. So to get the lush lush rates of £11 per hour I would need 3 fulltime children.

And we all know how RARE full timers are .
I just think that it's a pity that as a society, we pay more for people to kick a football around.
Act on TV or films or 'try' and make money.
But people who deal with real stuff, such as looking after people of all ages, life saving, research, scientists ect.. All get paid less!

Well to be honest 325 an hour. Food and outings included. Not complaining as I really love doing this and love the little ones I mind. But yes I have to agree we are a little underpaid. One of my parents is wideeyed cause im putting my rates up 25p an hour this year. But not raised them for 3 years and only means an extra 5 pound a wk for them lol.

Just re-read my post and realised that I went off on a little tangent, what I was meaning that although we get paid X amount quite often nannies go above and beyond the expectations of that wage - doesn't mean we should be paid more, just that everyone has to be reasonable in their demands!

As a CM I charge £4.00 an hour which is at the top end of average for this area. This includes food & outings etc but not nappies. My setting is open 4 days a week, 46 weeks per year, 8am-6pm I don't get lunch breaks! I'm registered for 3 under 5's & I don't care for school aged children. So potentially I could be on a gross of £22080 for a 40 hour week BUT that gross is a) not my salary as expenses such as feeding the children, petrol, entry fees, buying/replacing resources, stationery, heat & light have to come out of that. A Childminders allowable expenses are usually 1/2-2/3 of their gross so say 1/2 which makes my gross potential profit (ie income before tax & NI, not my net pay)£11040 or £6.00 per hour which is above minimum wage but barely. BUT this all presumes I am working all 40 hours for everyone of those 46 weeks at full capacity which in practice never happens. I currently have spaces on Tuesdays & Wednesdays & only one of my children does 8-6 -most do 9-4. Last tax year my income after expenses(same as gross salary for an employed person) was just over £7000 ie £3.80p/h. I am a graduate with QTS and EYPS and graded Outstanding by ofsted. I have direct responsibility for the wellbeing, safety and nuturing the development of human beings. What price can you put on that ????

I've never felt underpaid as a nanny, though I have had a couple of families feeling that they 'owned' me because they were paying my wages- particularly when live in. So I would do far longer hours than paid for.

I did however feel really underpaid working in nurseries. I've yet to work in a nursery for more than minimum wage- admittedly in Cornwall but cost of living and transport is pretty high there. Even working 40-50 hours I didnt earn enough to move out of my parents, one of the main reasons I moved to London to become a nanny.

My (live in) nanny earns £26k per year gross plus £1k annual bonus and has 6 weeks holidays a year. She has a bigger appetite than dh (himself no slouch in that department) and the difference in our food bill when she is on holiday is noticeable. I would estimate that we probably spend an additional £3k/£4k a year on food. So salary and beneifts tots up to £31k (plus another £1k employers NIC). I only have one child.

I beg to differ that all nannies are massively underpaid, but would welcome suggestions from the OP as to how much more above the average UK salary (£24k, out of which people fund their own rent, food, utilities etc) that she thinks I should be paying my nanny?

novice as a nanny i completely agree with you!

Not all nannies are underpaid, and live in nannies especially will have more disposable than most people working more "normal" jobs. (by normal you know, shop workers, postmen, bus drivers, nursery staff, nurses, receptionists etc etc)

i dont 'earn' that much as a nanny, but my 'disposible' income as a live in nanny is a lot more than some people who make a lot of money but have a lot of expenses. and i can save half my wages.
thing is we cant earn 'that much' unfortunately because otherwise we could only work for the really rich. i dont think for the hours we work (and the fact its a lot harder than some people imagine, and some jobs are very demanding and are more than just 'childcare') we dont earn that much, and i cant afford to be a daily nanny atm, i dont think i would ever afford my own house as a nanny in london, but as a live in, the money i have after all my direct debits have been paid, is probably more than my bosses and my parents who earn a lot (my dad gets more per day than i get per week)

as for quealifications, no we dont NEED them, but a lot of us have them. i was in college for 5years and some of us are highly experienced and espeically for a first time mother, its reassuring for them to go back to work knowing their baby is in good, experienced hands.
i think its unfortunate that lately there seems to be a lot of jobs advertised for an au pair, paying £75 a week for example and the discription is that of a nanny, and you really arent getting a nanny for £75. not to knock au pairs, they are suited for some jobs, i have even recommended a parent who i felt didnt need a nanny to have one, but i do think if you are after a nanny but getting an au pair, you will notice the difference-or you wont, but trust me you will get a different type of empployee.

My mum's a teacher and has been back at work since I was about 11 - that's 20 years. Her salary - which includes marking etc - is lower than some nannies' salaries, despite being a specialist in certain subjects, having a management role etc, working in eves and school hols and having a class of 26 kids all day every day. Equally, some nannies earn more than my FTE for less qualifications and experience than I have in my industry. Childcarers underpaid? I don't think so - I actually think some of the net salaries demanded are madness.

Pecanpie. A nanny in london earns completely different wage to a childminder in northwest. Believe me a teacher here earns far more than a minder. Depends on where you live.

novice

Does she spend £80 pw on food? What does she eat?

Am a cm.. work 8am till 6pm every day.. have 4 under 5 to look after and so average £450 a week..(so dont pay tax) I used to be in he medical profssion and that was shite pay as well.

HOWEVER...

i am home based so am here when my own dd gets in from school,

i spent 2 hours today in the park with the kids having lots of fun not stuck in a boring office or busy ward but out and about,

i am my own boss and run my own business,

tomorrow I am packing a picnic and we are all going for a tramp in the woods....

i earn enough to support 2 kids at uni and pay the weekly grocery bill.. dont want/ need to earn more as dh is main bread winner..

its all about work life balance and I have that.. oh and all asleep at the moment so can mumsnet with a cuppa..

The problem with childcare in this country is that it costs too much and not too little.

What an ignorant OP.

And to lump all au pairs, childminders, and nannies in together is silly because there are huge ranges in salary. Some childminders work for £3.00 an hour. Mine gets £6. Some au pairs get £50 per week. Mine gets over £100, a nice gym membership, a phone, oh and she gets to live me and I am lovely!