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Paid childcare

Discuss everything related to paid childcare here, including childminders, nannies, nurseries and au pairs.

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Original poster

What is a fair wage for me as live in nanny

70 replies

erm1989 · 25/02/2011 14:34

Hi
I would really appreciate some help please. I have just started my first job as a live in nanny. I am 21 years old and have a Cache level 3 diploma in Childcare and Education.
My employers work away and are home at weekends only when I am able to return to my own home. I therefore have to care for the two children aged 1 and 3 years for 24 hours per day, five days per week. I do not get any expenses for fuel if I take the children anywhere by car am not allowed to do any personal washing or use the telephone. My salary is £240 per week.
Please can someone advise on whether this is a fair salary or not. My family think not due to the level of responsibility and care provided.
Many thanks.

PS: Does anyone know of any telephone advice lines that I can make use of please.

OP posts:

nannyl · 25/02/2011 15:48

so you are doing 24/5 so 120 hours per week for £240.

That makes £2 per hour!... not even half of min wage!

No i dont think thats fair, as a nanny id charge MORE THAN DOUBLE that and for LESS THAN half those hours!
(though am fully qualified have 10 years experiance and have a degree)

Id be handing in notice and leaving, see if they can find anyone else to work for that, (Im guessing not!)

OldLadyKnowsNothing · 25/02/2011 15:50

Can't help with telephone help lines and so on, but you are being outrageously underpaid and over-worked. Start looking for another job.

Original poster

erm1989 · 25/02/2011 15:52

thankyou somuch for taking the time to reply, that is pretty much what my mother has been saying

OP posts:

clutteredup · 25/02/2011 15:54

I think you'll find you are working more than legal hours if you arelooking after children 24/7 five days a week, its almost certainly not legal, not to mention negligent of parents. Check out nannying websites to see working terms and also legal employment advice I'n sure you can Google it and find some free advice or try CAB. It's not just the pay but I think legally this is a concern as technically you are employed for 120 hours a week with no breaks.

annh · 25/02/2011 15:54

I cannot advise on your salary level but am shocked that you are expected to be on duty 24/7 for five days per week. Is this a permanent arrangement that the parents are both going to be away fulltime? With regards to the washing and phone, I would simply put my foot down and say it is unacceptable. If you ahve to phone the doctor, dentist etc for the children, how do they propose you do that? Having said that, if the parents are never there, how will they know if you use their washing machine? Presumably they expect you do to the children's laundry! It is also not acceptable not to be able to chare for your petrol when taking the children out. I am tempted to say that you should just refuse to take them out at all but if you are on your own with two toddlers, that would probably just backfire on you as you would go mad without adult company!

nbee84 · 25/02/2011 15:54

£240 per week would be a fair wage for your first live-in job if it was normal hours - 8-6 or suchlike. But for 24/5 they should be paying more and sounds like they are trying it on with you being young and inexperienced (not as in no experience with kids, but with not having had many nanny jobs and not being wise to all the ins and outs of employment that we tend to pick up once we've been doing the job for a few years)

annh · 25/02/2011 15:56

Minimum wage doesn't apply to live-in positions but you are still horribly underpaid!

Blondeshavemorefun · 25/02/2011 16:05

no nmw for live ins but yes you are very underpaid for the hours

be different if did 11/12hrs days for same amount

why did you agree to work for this/take on 24/7/agree to not being able to use washing machine etc

tbh there are no telephone advice lines, you agreed to do this, they are not forcing you iyswim

listen to your mum and hand in notice and go and live with her till you find a new job, ideally a live out one as they pay more

clutteredup · 25/02/2011 16:06

link for rights helpline Domestic 'servants' are exempt from 48 hour week guidelines but still its worth a call. They ABU not to allow you to do washing etc. I'd say they were pretty awful employers and you might be best to cut your losses rather than fight it, at least then you might get a good reference.

CrazyHorse · 25/02/2011 16:12

You are being underpaid, but I don't think that is the issue here; they sound horrendous. Why can't you do any personal washing?

I have had a low paid nanny job, but then I had massive perks at the same time, and the family were really lovely to me,and I was working in a foreign city and learning a new language, which is why I took the job stayed.

Is £240 net or gross?

They could probably find someone else to do the job, but not someone British (I'm presuming you are British and working in Britain)

Original poster

erm1989 · 25/02/2011 16:23

Hi again
Thanks for all of your replies. £240 is gross pay and I am British. When I accepted the job, I have to admit I was rather naive and never having actually worked as a nanny before didn't really know what 'live in' actually means with regards to salary and what acceptable hours were, hence my request on here for advice and opinions. The washing machine, telephone etc wasn't discussed before I began work, I was told just as they were going out of the door to leave for work.
I haven't yet had a contract of employment they are supposedly in the midst of creating this. Now that I am armed with more information, thanks to all of your replies, I am going to make an appointment to speak with them tomorrow evening to discuss some of the issues raised here.
Thanks again to all

OP posts:

Supernanny89 · 25/02/2011 17:12

Oh my god, I am so shocked you are on this wage! I work 40 hours a week, 8 - 6 monday - thursday for 240, they also give me fuel allowance when with the children and I can use their telephone (within reason). I am also 21, Btec national diploma, and this is my 1st full time nanny job.

Where abouts are you based? As different areas have different rates. I really think there taking the mick with you.

Supernanny89 · 25/02/2011 17:17

That is your gross pay?? (Ive just read your last post) So you take home less than 240! That is awful. You are qualified you should be on alot more!

I think it's rude that you arent allowed to do your washing, do they expect you to take it all home with you at the weekend?! They really sound bad employers!

Original poster

erm1989 · 25/02/2011 17:41

Hi Supernanny89
Thanks for your reply. I'm based in Wales and would never expect to get the same rate as I would if I were to be based in London for example-just fair play would be nice! Having read these replies I also now believe that they are taking the mick and yes, I do have to take my washing home!

OP posts:

Blondeshavemorefun · 25/02/2011 17:43

no contract means you can just walk .........

how long have you been in this job?

Original poster

erm1989 · 25/02/2011 17:50

Only really just started and have only just realised what is truly expected of me and for how little! I know I have been naive, I should have insisted on a written contract immediately, at the moment what they said before my employment and what they have put into practice are different. I'll have to see what they say when I discuss all of this with them tomorrow.

OP posts:

nbee84 · 25/02/2011 18:27

Yes, a bit naive - but take heart in the fact that most of us were wet behind the ears once. In my first job I did most of the general housework - mopping floors, cleaning bathrooms, hoovering etc Once, MB came in and walked leaves on her shoes through the hallway - she asked me to hoover before I left as I obviously hadn't done it that day! I missed my bus as I wasn't brave enough to say anything No holiday pay, no sick pay - 1st job and I just didn't know any different.

SnapFrakkleAndPop · 25/02/2011 18:49

Leave.

I would bother saying more but they're taking the p* and it's not going to get better even with a contract.

I used to do 24/5, slightly older than you but my salary was multiples of yours, only had 1 7yo charge and very rarely worked the full 24/5. Plus I had use of all their facilities when I was there. The deal you have isn't normal and you're horrifically underpaid for those hours and that responsibility.

Treeesa · 25/02/2011 19:33

This view that the NMW does not apply to 'live-ins' I believe is incorrect.

Nannies are only exempt from the NMW if they:

live in the family home where they are working

are treated as a member of the family, who share

in the tasks and leisure activities of the household and in particular with regard to the provision of accommodation and meals; and

are not liable for any charge in respect of the

accommodation or meals

In many cases nannies are not treated as a family member and join in with leisure activities, meals etc.

In this particular case though - the OP does not live in the family home because she goes to her own home at the weekends.

If she was being treated as if this was her home, wouldn't she be able to do her own laundry there.

She does not share in the tasks - she is doing them all of them when she is there.

She is not sharing in leisure activities as the parents are not there. So there is no leisure time because it is doing her job time..

The problem is that if she asks for a pay rise then she will be out of a job probably. If this happens I think you have a great case to make an official NMW complaint and possibly go to a tribunal to get missing back pay awarded.

nannynick · 25/02/2011 19:49

what they said before my employment and what they have put into practice are different.

That is a key thing you need to sort out. You have agreed to do the job, for the wage, as was described to you prior to starting the job.

My employers work away and are home at weekends only

Is that something you were told prior to starting the job?

Having now started the job, you find the job is a lot different to how it was described. That is a problem and you need to discuss it with your employer so that they are aware that you are not happy.

Being live-in does mess with employment rights, so getting advice about what rights you have will be useful. A Written Statement (like a contract) is required to be given to you within the first 2 months of starting the job.
Try ACAS, they may be able to tell you about what employment rights you still have given that you live with your employer Monday-Friday.

ACAS: Monday-Friday, 8am-8pm and Saturday, 9am-1pm: 08457 47 47 47

Tressa makes a good point about National Minimum Wage, as they are not treating you as part of the family (such as not letting you do your washing and due to you going home at weekends) then NMW may apply. It's something you need advice on.

Some info about NMW when Employer provides Accommodation
Pay and Work Rights Helpline 0800 917 2368
Confidential help and advice on the NMW

Treeesa · 25/02/2011 21:16

Trish I can live with but Tressa sounds a little prissy Nick..!

nannynick · 25/02/2011 21:23

I blame tiredness, been a long week.

mranchovy · 26/02/2011 01:09

Treesa is probably right about the NMW - 'live in' does not meen that you sleep at the employers' house because you are looking after the children, it means that your employer provides you with the home you live in while you are not looking after the children!

This arrangement is also in breach of the Working Hours Regulations - many people do not realise that there are a number of different elements to these regulations, and it is only the 48 hour working week that does not apply to nannies. The big one here is breaks between shifts: you must have a rest period of at least 11 hours between shifts.

This is beyond a bad job, you are being exploited :(

The following phone numbers may help:

I would start with the ACAS Helpline 08457 47 47 47.

Next the HMRC tax evasion hotline 0800 788 887 who will be interested in the National Minimum Wage issue, and I bet you have never had a payslip or any indication that they are operating PAYE which they will also love to know.

Finally I would call the NSPCC Helpline on 0808 800 5000 because however competent you are it does not appear to me to be appropriate for parents to abandon their children in this way.

NearlySpring · 26/02/2011 01:30

Is working away Mon-Fri classed as abandoning your children then Mranchovy... perhaps thisis a short term arrangement. They have left their children in th ecare of a competent nanny, not alone or with a random stranger.

mranchovy · 26/02/2011 01:52

I don't know NearlySpring, but as I said, that's how it appears to me.

The situation described in the original post ("My employers work away and are home at weekends only etc.") does not sound like a one-off.

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