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Paid childcare

Discuss everything related to paid childcare here, including childminders, nannies, nurseries and au pairs.

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Original poster

Quick can I have some advice please

47 replies

doonhamer · 18/02/2011 14:43

Contract review coming up. The original contract stated that I would only have the mindees when their dad was working, but it turned out to be Monday to Friday 8-5 regardless of wether the dad was off or not.

The mum now wants me to change the contract to 07.30- 5.30 Monday to Friday - so that's what they pay me and that way they get the full amount of those hours from tax credits, but she assures me that it won't be every day.
So, what I want to know is, can I say that I will do the contract for those hours on the understanding that it won't be every day that i work those hours, and that if it starts to be every day, then I reserve the right to review the contract before the 3 month review?

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Original poster

doonhamer · 18/02/2011 14:46

The parent only wants those hours written into contract (she says) because she can't afford for me to present her with "surprise" invoices at end of month for extra hours.

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compo · 18/02/2011 14:47

She's trying to pull a fast one on the tax credit people

BoysAreLikeDogs · 18/02/2011 14:48

can you handwrite review in 3 months somewhere?

(CBA to get orf my arse to have a look at a blank one upstairs in my filing cabinet)

Original poster

doonhamer · 18/02/2011 14:48

She is, and she also seems to be under the impression that she is going to get £300 more than her childcare bill in tax credits.
All she goes on about is how much she can't afford childcare.
There is no comeback on me though is there if I do a contract for those hours and only have the children 8-5 instead of an hour extra?

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BoysAreLikeDogs · 18/02/2011 14:49

oh gosh, compo, I hadn't considered that

jaffacake79 · 18/02/2011 14:50

I'm not sure I understand fully.
If you change the contract to those hours, and you're paid for those hours then it's up to the parents whether they send them or not. As long as you're being paid and don't mind having them for those full hours then it shouldn't be an issue.
If you're changing the contract just because they're asking you to, and you're not happy with the hours then say so.
I can understand her not wanting "surprised" invoices as then she can't claim them back from tax credits.

Original poster

doonhamer · 18/02/2011 14:50

I can write n review in 3 months, but I want to know if, after 1 month i find I am having mindees 10 hours a day, 5 days a week, that I can turn to parents and say "hang on, I'm not happy with this" etc, or can i write it into contract that the 07.30- 5.30 days is in case of the mums shifts changing ( mum works 07.45 til 12.30 every day.

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Original poster

doonhamer · 18/02/2011 14:52

the most her surprise would be is £40 a month extra, not hundreds and hundreds.
Ijust feel that these parents are moving the goalposts yet again, the mum has already mentoned to my DH that "It's a pity she doesn't do overnight care,she could have them all week" and I don't believe for one minute that she was joking.

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Original poster

doonhamer · 18/02/2011 14:54

There won't be surprises that she has to pay for if she is getting £300 more than her monthly invoice from me

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BoysAreLikeDogs · 18/02/2011 14:54

it all hinges on whether you offer a service for the proposed contracted hours

if you don't want those hours then say no

Flisspaps · 18/02/2011 14:55

I would say that if you are not prepared to work the hours that she wants you to put down, then don't complete and sign a contract agreeing to them, regardless of how short a period you will review it in.

Original poster

doonhamer · 18/02/2011 14:56

Ok then, so do it for 3 months then if not happy, I will change the contract at the 3 month review. The mum is already annoyed with me because I have stopped offering a Saturday service

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Original poster

doonhamer · 18/02/2011 15:02

Have confused myself

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jaffacake79 · 18/02/2011 15:35

£300 more from tax credits than you are invoicing her for?! Flipping heck.

malevolentpsammead · 18/02/2011 19:59

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

nannynick · 18/02/2011 20:11

There are max claim amounts for Childcare Element of WTC - at least I always thought there were. For 1 child it's 80% of £175 (so £140), 2 or more children it's 80% of £300 (so £240). See WTC2 and WTC5 leaflets from HMRC.

If you are not prepared to work the hours that you are writing in the contract, then don't agree the contract... as what if she suddenly does want all those hours?

ImFab · 18/02/2011 20:16

I wouldn't agree to this. It is obvious she is trying to pull a fast one and will leave her child with you every day for the full time.

mrsthomsontobe · 18/02/2011 20:17

tax credits wont pay her 300 more than her childcare invoice. does she work a saturday why does she need a saturday service and if she only work till 12.30 then would would she need you till 5.30 every day. theres no need for that maybe add an hour or 2 on to when you finish so say 2.30/3 but why 5.30 cant she pick them up? does it have to be the dad. i would also still include in the conract that only when the dad is working if that suits you better.

Original poster

doonhamer · 19/02/2011 08:51

Ok she is adamant that she will be getting £300 a month more than the monthly childcare invoice.
The riginal contract - which will be over ridden by new one - was for me to only have the mindees when the dad was working as mum worked full time.
However, this quickly developed into me having mindees every day, even when dad wasn't working.
She's annoyed about the Saturday thing because she works
7.45 - 12/30 ish every day, the dad has a shift system, so this past week he did 4 x 12 hour day shifts, he is off today, she has admitted to me that she wished I did saturdays so that her and her DH could spend time together if he'd done 12 day or night shifts.

She finishes at 12.30 every day and has never asked for the contract to be changed, or picked up early, never. In fact I ahve said that they would save a bit of money (as mum is always moaning they are skint)because original contract was for me to ahve mindees when dad was working and would only get paid when I had them.

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Original poster

doonhamer · 19/02/2011 08:52

As DH said to me "surely the point of tax credits is to help people out, not benefit them more by giving them extra money?"

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nannynick · 19/02/2011 10:00

I don't see how she would get more money.

07.30-5.30 = 10 hours x 5 = 50 hours a week.
If you charged £4 per hour, that's £200 a week cost.

Max claim with 1 child is £140, so she would need to pay £60.

She works 5 hours a day say... so 25, 30, 35 hours a week. Would taxcredits not spot that the amount of hours worked, is a lot different to amount of childcare hours claimed?

You say mindees - so is that 2 children, or more?

Say if 2 children, then £400 a week charge (based on above figures), but max claim is £240, so she would have £160 a week to pay.

I do wonder if she thinks the amount that taxcredits will pay is unlimited? Maybe print her out WTC2 and highlight the limits.

Original poster

doonhamer · 20/02/2011 20:15

Nick - thing is she is in the military, so she gets paid 24/7, not set hours. Even then she would be classed as working a 40 hours week (DH is military and he is classed as working full time 8-5 even though he gets paid 24/7 too) so it would be based I think on their earnings.

I had 2 neighbours visit me yesterday, boths seperately One of them i am very good friends with and mentioned to her in passing that the mum wanted this 7.30-5.30 contract signed. The other I don't know so well, but her DH works with the mindees mum.

1st neighbour begged me to reconsder, as she said " you know that even if she says you won't be doing 10 hour days that you will, because she's lazy and selfish"

2 nd neighbour came to tell me that her DH had came in and said that he's seen teh rosters for the next 2 months and that mindees mum is on 7.45 - 12.30 every day for the next 2 months.
She has told work that she needs to be on early shift all the time because " her CM is unavilabelint eha fternoons".

now I don't know what to do. I don't want to commit to a 10 hour day 5 days a week fi there is really no need for it

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Original poster

doonhamer · 20/02/2011 20:17

I think it's a nanny she needs not a CM

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summer68 · 21/02/2011 00:49

I was a childminder for 12ys and fully understand your dilema. I used to hate dealing with fees and contracts.
You sound very caring and accomodating, doon, as is the nature of many minders, but from what youve said it seems very clear that this parent is abusing your good nature.
If you sign the contract you will be conracted to work those hours

of course you can change these hours after three months ( or any time specified by you in your contract) but she will not be happy with you shortening your hours and you will probably end up feeling bad about it even though you know it is not your fault. Please decide what hours you want to work- eg if she is finishing at 12.30 every day, perhaps you would prefure to finish at 2pm on one or two days or do you want to work full time? remember she is lucky to have you.

SnapFrakkleAndPop · 21/02/2011 07:19

I know that even if my DH in theory finishes at 12 one day there's always a chance he won't so our childcare will need to cover my fixed working hours rather than his. Maybe she's just bilding in that contingency when booking you for the hours?

Am a bit at her shift requests though and the reasons.

I would give them a set number of hours per week to be taken between x and y times. That way you won't work 5 10 hour days if you don't want to but she has the space if it's needed.

How does that work with your spaces though? IMO 5 10 hour days is pretty standard for a FT mindee but most CMs go 8-6.

But there are no repercussions if they book that space, pay for that space and don't use it for you or them. What would be dishonest of them is claiming the tax credit FT and having a PAYG arrangement with you.

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