CM given me a weeks notice that she doesn't have space for my ds in half term

[Eddas]

I am absolutley livid with my CM, but although she 'understands' she clearly isn't willing to actually do anything about it.

A bit of background; ds(3) has been with cm for 2 years. It started off as a 3 day a week, 6 hours a day contract, she was happy with this and I do understand I am lucky to have a cm taking a part-timer, I just pay the hours she has ds, which was her terms. So ds turned 3 last year and I approach cm about only having ds 2-3 hours a day in term time and using a pre-school the other times. Again she is happy to do this, again I know i'm lucky, but the agreement was that this was the case term time and holidays would revert to the 'old' 6 hours a day, or I have always said I would chagne and do 2 full days if this was easier for her. Most of her mindees are before/after school so ds fits in nicely for her without meaning she has him with the bigger kids. She also has a baby mindee which she has recently taken on. Other than the baby and ds she has no other daytime mindees.

With me so far?

So today I collect ds at 2.30 and she says she doesn't have space for him next week as if she takes him she'll be over her numbers, that she has taken on a few new children menaing now in the holidays there probably won't be space for ds So I ask her what she expects me to do with ds? she said 'well sorry do you expect me to take him over a full timer' so I said I can totally understand from her pov why she wants to do this but ds has been there 2 years and she is giving priority to a newer child and not fullfilling our contract, and anyway I cannot exactly find a new cm in a few days and just expect my 3 year old to go in no probs next week and everything be ok.

Now I know it's not her problem, well actually it is because I have 1 weeks notice to sort it out!! but WTF am I supposed to do, again I know this isn't her issue but she knows full well I don't have an army of 'back-up' GP's to take over, I mean who do I ask exactly? On this ocassion I am hoping MIL will have him but I can't rely on her every holiday.

Luckily he starts school in Sept and I will then have access to holiday clubs, but until them I am screwed really Either I change to term time only and faff throught the remaining hols or I find a new CM which is tricky and I am loathed to move ds. I know I will probably have to though.

Hi
If I have read this correctly you have a contract with this CM for 3 hours per day x 3 days term time & 6 hours per day x 3 days sch holidays?
If this is the case she cannot just change this but must give you whatever notice is in your contract to terminate it & then issue a new contract for term time only, or if this is a one off she needs to give you whatever notice it states in your contract for her to take holiday. If she doesn't she is in breach of contract.
If however the holiday care was on an ad hoc subject to availability basis then she is within her rights not to take him.
It all depends on your contract.

If she has taken on other children & needs to change your contract this is allowed (though obviously not good for you) so long as she gives you the agreed notice BUT you don't have to accept her terms & can leave at the end of the notice period instead.

Personally as a CM I think her behaviour is very poor and unreasonable as although she may need to take on more children she should have given you plenty of notice about half term. You are lucky with the terms you offered & she accepted re 3 hours TT & 6 hours hols as most cm's would have charged 6 hours all year or at least a retainer but that doesn't justify her actions.

what hours are set out in the contract and how much notice does it state is needed for either party to change hours needed? or notice to quit?

Well, the contract when I signed was 6 hours all year round for 3 days a week.

I didn't sign a new contract when things changed in September.

I know I am lucky to find a CM that lets me pay short hours but she was happy with that.

I know she can change her mind

But I also know that less than a weeks notice is very unfair, but I also know that even if it is breech of contract there's a big fat nothing I can do about it!

oh and it's 4 weeks notice as far as i'm aware

well in that case you're lucky you don't owe her for the extra 3 hours a day term time since ds turned 3!

Well she's quite clearly gone back on her contract
don't know what you can do about it though
I'd find it hard to trust her after breaking it though

moogster1a Tue 15-Feb-11 16:42:34
well in that case you're lucky you don't owe her for the extra 3 hours a day term time since ds turned 3!

erm, why because I didn't sign a new contract? Can a contract not be verbal, she was happy to change the terms, I asked and she said yes, if she had said no then I would have either paid or found elsewhere. And I did ask WELL in advance. I don't think I did anything wrong.

And yes I know i'm lucky she agreed but she did. I didn't force her.

Quote:I know I am lucky to find a CM that lets me pay short hours but she was happy with that.

I think may be she wasn't happy with that and has felt as though she was being told what to do. Obviously she should have said before but perhaps you could use some holiday and then sort out some other arrangements or you may be able to get a nanny through an agency or have a look on childcare.co.uk for any holiday spaces.

compo, exactly, I think it's just another in a long line of 'tough shit for Eddas'!!

I feel like telling her to poke it, without notice, but frankly I know she offers a good deal and ds has been there 2 years and will move on in Sept.

In fact the more I think about it the more I realise this is more that she knows he's leaving in Aug(ish) and the other new kids will be there til the end of primary school.

Which I do totally understand but I'm feeling sorry for myself!

What childminder would take on ds, even if I paid for more than 3 hours a day for 6 months? No-one? right? so I'm a bit stuffed unless I ask her for term time only through gritted teeth and faff through the hols using up holiday and more favours than I can ever repay!

She should have given you the agreed notice, but there's not much you can do about it unless you are out of pocket because of it (unless some legal person says otherwise).

You were lucky to have this contract, but that is irrelevent and she should have honoured it.

Are you able to do a 'child swap' with anyone? Maybe someone he will be going to school with, or someone at pre school? You could do 2 days each and smile sweetly at the MIL for the other day.

You might get another CM who has children contracted to start in September (as often happens)

danth4th, I would never tell her what to do! ever. I asked and at the time, with nop other daytime mindees she was ok with it, she could have said she needs a retainer or no but she didn't. Please don't make it that I forced her to take that decision as ds's income is not her main income and if she choose to she had space for 2 other fulltime day time mindees but she only had ds.

If she had said when I asked that she wasn't happy to change the pay I would've either stayed the same or worked out another way

And I don't have any hol left as my hol year is 1st April- 31st March, and I used it when she has hols (May/June half term, 2 weeks in Aug and Oct half term)

I think she sounds like a CM who would hold you to the contract 100% but when it suits her - new child + more money - she drops you in the shit.

If at all possible I would leave now, take some holiday/call in favours until you can get someone temporary. Another CM might work as school clubs might not always suit. I would do everything I could to make it so I didn't have to pay this woman another penny.

where are you eddas? perhaps there are childminders here who may be able to help you

You could ring round and ask for hol only care? I am currently taking on hol only children so there is bound to be others who would take you on and then you can also carry on using them when your ds starts school?

Ok - so your contract states 4 weeks notice so that's what she should have given you for any change - as she hasn't she is in breach of contract & you could take her to court for the money in lieu of notice (it works both ways as if you had left without notice she could do the same obv.).
Regrading the change in hours, yes you should have signed a new contract detailing the revised hours, so your old contract is still in force BUT as you said, it was agreed verbally & though I'm no legal bod (need MrAnchovy here) my understanding is that because she has been caring for your child for just 3 hours since Sept term time and accepting payment for just the 3 hours then this demonstrates your verbal contract has been happening in practice & so is legally binding.
The fact that you have been lucky with your very favourable terms and that most cms would have charged you more is irrelevant. What counts is that the CM has not given you the required notice & left you in deep sh*t.
What you do now I don't know - you could go back to the CM & point out the 4 weeks notice but it doesn't sound like she would be very receptive. Are there any school holiday clubs locally? Our council runs quite a few a the sports centre & the private sports centres do too.
Failing that, depending on where you are check out if you have a local childminding Assoc that runs a vacancy service and contact your local Family Information Service to see if they have details of cm's offering short notice/holiday care or look on www.emergencychildcare.co.uk and finally, start looking for a new childminder as I suspect you will find it hard to trust this one again.

really cant post on this thread because - as a cm - I am mad at some of the responses!!!

I know my cm has a space during school holidays. I have a term time only contract as I work in a school and don't need care during the holidays. Perhaps you could find a cm with teacher's children wih the same arrangement. This would also work well for Sept when your DS starts school.

So far as I understand you, the original contract was broken when you changed the days. You say this was a verbal agreement and that's fine so long as you were both OK about what was being agreed, but really a new contract should have been drawn up at the time.

It does sound to me more like a breakdown in communication and that the childminder wasn't expecting to have your DS automatically in the holidays. Had this been the case, you might well have found yourself paying a retainer to reserve those hours.

You see, while you may have thought, or even mutually agreed, that your hours revert to the original contract, your childminder doesn't seem to have understood this to be the case and you have nothing in writing to back up your case.

That's why moogster is saying about charging for the extra hours. Either the original contract holds or it does not. It's my opinion that it was broken long before this incident.

Does it make a difference if I remind people that there have been 2 school hols since the change, both of which she was happy to take ds as she had fewer other children then?

Despite this, really my issue is with the notice given.

Surely no one can disagree that this is wrong?

I have decided to speak to CM tomorrow and see if she is happy to stay term time only. Then I will sort something for the holidays. I am going to approach my boss about working remotely or on a saturday, which is normally not common practice but if I don't ask then I won't know his answer. Not ideal but it's only until ds starts school. Lets hope I sort something

I am really surprised by some of the negative reactions the op is getting here.
I thought it was quite straightforward but maybe I am missing something. Back in Sept the CM agreed to reduce the OP termtime hours by 3 hours per day & not to charge a retainer for the other 3 hours. There was no change to the school holiday hours at all and at best the cm could have claimed to have misunderstood and thought the op wanted a blanket 3 hours, but this would have been sussed at the 1st set of holidays following the change. The CM & Op have a verbal contract yes, but the OP did not 'break' the original contract, she renegotiated it & the cm is at fault for not providing a new/revised written agreement as is her legal duty. The notice period still stands so whatever any of you may think about the verbal agreement business or the terms that the op & cm agreed the cm should have given the op 4 weeks notice that she could not provide childcare next week. The Op states that the cm was not full & this may be why she agreed to the terms requested by the parent as any money is better than none and now the cm is filling her spaces she is quite understandably realising that the op contract is inconvenient & blocking a space but in this situation she should have approached op 1st and explained that she could nolonger offer those hours & renegotiated with the new contract commencing in 4 weeks.
Eddas if I have got the situation wrong please correct me.
fellow CM's will you explain why I am in the minority here without telling me the terms Eddas negotiated were unfair as this is not the issue - the issue is that instead of giving 4 weeks notice of a change to a contract/inability to provide care the cm gave 1 and has already filled the op's contracted space for that holiday.

Bloody hell, I do go on don't I?! Put it down to having got home from a very unsatisfactory Network meeting & not downing enough wine yet

childrenatheart, you have it all right, as far as I can see.

I actually don't understand why i'm getting a bashing at all. I have done nothing wrong, maybe been cheeky with a request but if she agreed how is that my problem? If she wasn't happy she would have said, I know she would. All she said was that as long as I would be responsible for ds whilst he was at pre-school ie if he's ill or they shut early for whatever reason then I would be called and not her she agreed not to charge a retainer. I said yes this was fine as if ds was ill etc I would want to collect him anyway so we agreed and it has worked like this since sept.

I do 100% understand that she can change her mind at any point and give me notice that she no longer has a space for ds as obviously if she got a full timer in over him she would be nuts to turn that down but I am cross that a before/after school child is being given priority over ds, who is doing his agreed 6 hours a day in the hols, as usual, basically because he won't be there all week and she can make more money out of the other child. and I get a week to find an alternative!!

You are quite right. Im a minder and she should have provided you 4 weeks notice. And both signed an amended contract.

I cannot see how it is cheeky to ask for a variance on your contract,it is simply a request, and given that she agreed verbally to it. Where is the cheek in that? You have simply varied your contractual hours, she has agreed to them, presumably has already done the holiday cover already, so has agreed to those terms. She should have given you the four weeks notice.