Warning others about a bad experience with a childminder?

[YankNCock]

My friend called me extremely upset today and told me after 7 years they are finding a new childminder as things have completely disintegrated with their old one.

There are quite a few reasons for this. There is some 'creative accounting' (friend's words) where hourly rates change frequently and they are billed for things that do not happen, poor quality meals, the house being a building site with kids herded into one room for months at a time, childminder's relatives being allowed to stay when they are ill but friend's little boy sent home for a snotty nose.

To top it off, when they gave their notice, the childminder left them in the lurch by taking the money and then saying she wouldn't look after the boys at all anymore. I'm not sure of the details of the contract, but my friend is out £1000 with no childcare now and has had to scramble to find someone else.

I remember one incident a few years ago where my friend's son came home (about age 4 I think) talking about 'X and Y being naked in the swimming pool' and it transpired that the minder and her husband were naturists and went on weekend naturist retreats. I have no problem with naturists, and they were not doing this around the mindees, but how did the kids find out about it?

Anyway, my friend now wants to know if there is anywhere she can review this childminder and warn others to keep away. She is already making a complaint to Ofstead.

I don't use a childminder, so no idea really if such a place exists where you can recommended/warn against specific childminders? Any ideas? Friend knew I used MN and specifically asked me to find out if anyone on here could help.

It took them 7 years to think that maybe their childcare provider wasn;t the best?

She can't be that bad if they stuck it out 7 years. Do people really leave their kids in the care of terrible people that long?

Yeah, I did kind of think they'd left it too long. My friend said 'we've overlooked so much for so long and I just can't do it anymore'.

My friend had a lot of health problems especially since her youngest was born, so I can only guess that has something to do with the inertia on her part. I know the relationship with her childminder was quite good at the start and for at least the first few years.

I'm not sure of the details of the contract

Yep, you don't know for sure what the situation is. You are going purely on what your friend decides to tell you, which may or may not be the whole story.

Let Ofsted deal with it. They will look at issues which affect the care of the children.

Your friend should be very careful about saying anything negative about someone on a public website. Libel law is not great in this country.

'X and Y being naked in the swimming pool'
That happened a while back, why didn't your friend raise concerns then?

Things can go downhill but this suddenly seems to have raised it's head, when your friend was given termination of contract notice.

Think back a year or so... were there problems then or are they only problems now that the contract is being terminated?

Or was it your friend who gave notice? I'm confused (not hard after a day at work plus having a cold).

Contract exists to say what happens in that situation, so it should have been clear what fees would still be payable during the notice period.

nick, I did mention the word 'libel' to my friend as I was concerned about her getting herself into trouble with all this.

To be clear, my friend did NOT mention the naturist business today, but I remember when it happened and I was a bit about it. I'd met her childminder a few times and wasn't particularly impressed with her, but it's not really something you say to your friend, i.e. 'oh your childminder seems a bit bitchy/weird'. They seemed to brush off the whole naturist thing and their son's comment, so I followed suit and didn't mention it again. Until now.

I can't remember my friend making any specific comments about being unhappy the last few years, but what I CAN recall is that the positive comments and descriptions of the childminder definitely stopped. When their oldest son was first going to this childminder we'd hear quite a bit about how good she thought the childminder was.

Honestly, I think you are right that she'd be best to put in a complain with Ofstead and leave it there. But I promised I would ask.

sorry, it is my friend that gave the notice. And the childminder seems to have retaliated by saying she will no longer look after the children with immediate effect.

She said something about the childminder demanding payment for March by 11/02 (which isn't in the contract).

I told her possibly if minder had taken money from her in some sort of breach of the contract she could look into small claims court.

And the childminder seems to have retaliated by saying she will no longer look after the children with immediate effect.

Not sure on the legals of that but it might suit your friend if that then means there is no notice period payable (as the childminder has decided to terminate the contract immediately).

She said something about the childminder demanding payment for March by 11/02 (which isn't in the contract).

If the payment terms in the contract differ to what the childminder now wants... stick to the contract wording. Childminder can take through small claims if they wish.

Your friend should communicate with her ex-childminder, verbally to start with but also in written form. Specifically your friend needs to know if the childminder is terminating contract and thus is NOT wanting any notice period paying. Or if there is a notice period to pay, whilst care of the children is still provided.

If it is an NCMA contract, then your friend can call the NCMA for advice - 0845 880 0044.

Aren't childminders registered through social services? If so surely they shoud be told?

crystal, no social services involvement in registering; the regulator is Ofsted

Registration varies depending on country. Different regulators in England, Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland.

The regulators will want to know about issues that affect care of children. They won't deal with financial or contractual matters (though may still want to know so they get a bigger picture).

it seems that this is a two-pronged complaint

1 about the care given may be below par - eg building works may not have been risk-assessed although making the area worked on out of bounds would have been good practice/relatives staying, were the children left alone with them at any time - Ofsted may be interested

2 payment issues - Ofsted are not interested in payment issues, so small claims will be the way forward

oh yes, I ALWAYS bloody forget to add that Wales/NI/Scotland have their own regulator

I think you should take Nannynick's excellent advice and stay out of it. Your friend is reporting to OFSTED: leave it to them.

I, too, am highly sceptical of a parent who has used a childminder for 7 years and only now starts to make some very serious complaints about her. Most parents would have had their children out of there years ago on any one of the reasons you've given.

The 'relatives' were actually children that were also being minded, but my friend's complaint was that when this particular child (a niece I think?) was ill, she would still be at the childminder and then all the mindees would catch it (and this happened more than once). When my friend's little boy recently had just a snotty nose, childminder refused to have him there.

nick, how will she know if it is an NCMA contract? What does that stand for?

oh, I see about the relatives, it's obvious now when I read back

you see, I wonder if the fact that the worries expressed only emerge after a demand for payment has been received could look like a malicious (sp) whatchamacallit

Tanith, I do definitely understand your skepticism, and I am only doing what my friend asked, which is looking for information.

Obviously the experience with this childminder hasn't been ALL bad, and it wasn't bad right from the start. I think they overlooked things and brushed them aside because they'd been with this minder so long. They live on the same street; in fact, I think it was the minder who told my friend about their being a house for sale on minder's road. This friend is not from this country and didn't know many people locally so I can sort of understand why she made excuses to herself and wasn't very assertive.

I've not actually seen one, I don't think. However I think it should say on it somewhere. Perhaps a Childminder on here can give you advice about what it would look like - given that the contract paperwork is probably 7 years+ old.

NCMA = National Childminding Association. It's a member organisation for childminders which provides standardised paperwork such as contracts, plus things like public liability insurance. Not all childminders are members.

An NCMA contract will have the NCMA logo in the top right corner and the website address and information line telephone number underneath the logo.

Many of my parents have been with me for years, but I can see them taking their kids straight out if they thought DH and I had been swimming naked in the pool in front of their children (God, what a horrible thought! )

Tanith, the minders were NOT naked in front of the children, I'd hoped I was clear about that before!

But for some reason, friend's DS came home talking about them being naked in the swimming pool. IIRC, friend asked them about this comment and it all came out about them being naturists and going to naturist retreats on the weekends. Friend didn't have a problem with it, but I was a little weirded out that her DS knew about it, as though it was being discussed around the kids or within earshot.

It's too late to talk to my friend now, but will ring her tomorrow regarding the contract and tell her the MN opinion is to leave it to Ofstead and use small claims if they've taken money and not fulfilled the terms of their contract.

I did find one site where people have left reviews of childminders: www.childcare.co.uk but her childminder isn't on there.

Is nobody going to point out that going away for a naturist weekend is not a sign of depravity? I can easily imagine a scenario where a mindee of 4 or so might ask "What did you do at the weekend Auntie ?" "I went on a naturist weekend" "What's that?" "It's like a holiday where you don't wear clothes" "What sort of things do you do?" "Go swimming, go for walks, all the things you usually do on holiday..." Why on earth wouldn't you mention any of this with kids within earshot? Parents evidently didn't have an issue with it either. It seems a bit odd to me to be bringing this up at all years after the event.

so the grounds for complaint are that the cm mentioned a naturist weekend ( years ago) and won't accept an ill child. That sounds good justification to try to wreck somebody's livelihood.
As happens depressingly frequently, all these awful problems seem to crop up when notice money is involved.
your friend sounds malicious .

Surely no-one leaves their kids with a childminder they are not keen on for 7 years

Quite frankly, I find this thread weird .

To be fair to the friend, Moogster, it wasn't the friend who was being malicious about the minder's naturist weekend however many years ago.

For what it's worth, I think it's highly likely that the parents in question have been happy with the minder's service for the vast majority of this seven years, or they would have taken the child(ren) away years ago. After that length of time you would hope that any niggles that arose could be amicably discussed and resolved, or the parties would agree to go their separate ways in a civilised fashion. To fall out and then involve OFSTED in an attempt to ruin the woman's reputation seems pretty outrageous, but as you say Moogster, it is depressingly common these days. You have to feel sorry for the children when the adults can't behave.