When will it be a requirement for a childminder to have a level 3 qual?

[Booh]

As the title says really?

I can't find any clarification really any where.

After chatting to a large group of childminders today most don't have it and most don't want to get it, so will they have to give up?

I have a level 3! Horah!

I havnt got it but might be tempted to do so if required...

thought of study makes me tired though!!!

wouldnt be over the moon tbh..work 50 hours a week now.. 8am till6pm.. when the hell would I get time to do it.. family need some attention in the evenings and I need a rest at weekends..

A resolution was passed by NCMA at conference a few years ago to lobby Govt to make it a requirement for all CM's to be L3 qualified by 2015 but its never been legislated for

A resolution was passed by NCMA at conference a few years ago to lobby Govt to make it a requirement for all CM's to be L3 qualified by 2015 but its never been legislated for
Good old NCMA. do bugger all except try to make life more difficult. Are they oblivious to the hours most of their members work. and taht most arents don't give a stuff how qualifed we are as long as the children are happy.
I hope no NCMA members actually voted for this.

What is NCMA membership these days? Bet it's less than 1/2 of registered childminders in the UK.
Do they really represent the view of most childminders?

I am in the process of employing contracting the services of a lovely childminder. I know her through church and school, which is why I chose her. She showed me an incredible mountain of paperwork when I went round to her house. I couldn't care less about any of it. Meeting other children, her assistant, seeing the house and garden, etc. was useful. Oh and she is going to fill out some education progress shit required paperwork on my son, who will be three months old when he starts. Oh good. 'cause I was really worried about that.

I'm left wondering what value NCMA brings to the table... if any.

What is a level three qualication when it's at home?

GCSE? PhD? Road safety certificate from the Tufty Club?

apols, am ignoramus

I have none of the above so a career as a childminder is clearly off the cards....

Level 3 = equivalent to A-levels.

There are kinds of lovely ideas floating round but nothing mandated.

Well if NCMA members hadn't voted for it then it wouldn't have been passed!
I wonder how many of the people who regularly moan & complain about NCMA actually do anything about it other than by leaving to go to MM. How many of you have contacted NCMA and told them why you are dissatisfied with them & what they do?
Bertina, you do not need to have a qualification to be a CM other than the 6 hours introductory childcare course you do as part of registration, a 12hour paediatric 1st Aid Cert, and a Food Handling cert if you feed the children(!).

Level 3 is appropriate for cm's as we are classed as supervisors as we don't work for anyone else. Examples are NVQ3 Childcare, Learning & Development, NNEB, BTEC Diploma in Childcare, the new Childrens Workforce Diploma, Diploma in Homebased Childcare, Cert in Childminding Practice - not an exhaustive list lol.

Whilst we don't have to have it the evidence from long term research studies such as the EPPE project & REPEY project is clear that the more qualified the practitioners in a setting the better the long term outcomes & achievements are for the children who attend them.

I realise I will be in the minority in this thread but having attended a lot of training I can chart over the past 10 years the improvements in my practice that have come about from my having a better understanding of child development & learning. I am a childminder with NVQ3 and have recently achieved Early Years Professional status (L6...).

Thanks SF&P!

CAH I don't know what BTEC etc is all about - I am horrendously old! The reason I don't have GCSEs is that I have O Levels.

certainly doing my level 3 (completed it 2 years ago) was HARD fitting in around work/family (up at 2am finishing essays OMG) but my practice has improved immeasurably

Being well-qualified, having up to date knowledge of child development and current thinking all helps to professionalise the CMer, and help to dismiss the perception that she sits around all day drinking tea and eating buns whilst the children swirl around her ankles

Childrenatheart - I did I wrote a long winded letter to the NCMA when I cancelled my membership. I felt as a minder in a very rural area they were not there to support me, that they agreed with whatever the government throws at us, that there is was major discrepancies with the EYFS, that they should be campaigning for our own set of rules as home based child carer's, that unlike nurseries we don't have a cook, cleaner, accountant, admin staff so stop trying to turn us into nurseries, that we don't have a "corner" for everything, that making us do obs on children we have for an hour after school just because they are still within the EYFS range is nuts....

I had a letter back telling me that I was in a minority, that everyone else supported their moves...

Very different from what I have heard on this forum over the past few years

I wish OFSTED would see as as Childminders and not nurseries RosieGirl, you are so right in saying we don't have the help that extra staff (cooks, cleaner, nursery nurses and the rest) so when they expect us to do obs on after schoolers (one of whom I look after when I pick her up from nursery) this does take the p*

I pick up from nursery, take home and give the children tea, I am aware of food hygiene as I also work in a school kitchen and practise this at home in my own kitchen , we don't need people to tell us this, its common sense!!!!!! I have an activity set out but she doesn't want to do anything as she has done things at nursery.

I did not go into childminding to do: accounting (keeping books for tax, registers like school, food hygiene to be a cafe or observations as am on my own LOOKING AFTER CHILDREN!!!!

I find with older after school age children they just want to chill out on sofa and watch a dvd or read a book. if i suggest activties they say "but we've written/read/drawn all day at school"

I thought of NCMA/OFSTED (can't remember whose silly rule it is) the other day as I thoroughly enjoyed scraping clean and eating the uncoocked cake batter from the mixing bowl. mmmmmmmmm good.

I don't think childminders need more qualifications. I just want someone who is competant and will bond with and take care of my son. Surely, you don't need an A level for this job.

There was a thread set up for me to write my ponderings about this, but I would like to post here the importance of stressing the difference between childminding and day nurseries.

I am begining to fear that people in general are thinking of childminding as a day nursery on domestic premises.

A requirement for childminders to be qualified to a relevant level 3 qualification, (I have 3 A-levels, but they don't count!) would, IMO, just add to this impression.

Within the next month, an inspector from the Environmental Health Department will be inspecting my premises, just like a day nursery.

When I think of it, OFSTED inspects me, just like a day nursery. The Early Years Team inspects me, just like a day nursery. I have to adhere to the EYFS, just like a day nursery. Childminders, it seems, now have to apply for planning permission, just like a day nursery. And now the NCMA wishes for childminders to be qualified to a relevant level 3, just like in a day nursery.

I wholeheartingly agree with Saltire and Strix on this!

You can have all the qualifications in the world and still not have any feel for the job or common sense. As a nanny I have to work with my employer in the confines of her home. I can suggest but not insist and I choose jobs where I have compatable views with my employer.
I get the impression it really pisses Ofsted off that it can't interfere in private homes as they can with childminders. My aunt gave up childminding because of the paperwork and beaurocracy and I feel sorry for anyone childminding in todays climate Where in the eyes of Ofsted the child seems to come second to the paperwork.
I have done lots of training over the years but still think that common sense, initiative, a love of and natural empathy with children are unbeatable qualities in a child carer

RosieG - Well done for writing to NCMA. Unfortunately I think they are right, you are in a minority, but not the same minority. You are the minority few who bother to complain. Most just moan on forums instead of taking action.

New2cm - planning permission was required by many local govts when I 1st registered well before Ofsted came on the scene. Its how different areas apply the guidance that varies. Here its not needed so long as you don't have more than 6 chn at ny one time.
I like the fact that day nurseries & CM's have to comply with the same set of regulations as it shows that we are equally professional and able. I don't like the paperwork, who does, and I think that obviously the regulations need to be interpreted appropriately according to the size & location of setting eg purpose built day nursery, pack away pre-sch, domestic premises etc. Unfortunately, so much of the aggro we get is as a result of inspectors incorrectly applying or interpreting the EYFS requirements.
I am proud of my qualifications & I know my practice has improved on an ongoing basis as a direct result of this (coupled with my experience of course). I wouldn't want a Dr or nurse or health visitor or plumber or car mechanic or electrician etc who wasn't trained & who didn't keep that training up to date, so why would I want to entrust my treasured child & all their potential to someone who isn't trained. Yes my Stepdad is a dab hand with a screwdriver and has years of DIY experience & can fit a plug socket but I wouldn't want him to rewire my house.

Childrenatheart - for all my moaning and groaning, I got an outstanding pre-EYFS (due inspection soon, really don't feel I will get the same because of the paperwork side of things - HATE planning, love moving naturally along with children), have done my Level 3, while working a 52 hour week, and all my bits are up to date.

I was told last week, by a neurologist that I have to slow down before I make myself even more ill, but can't afford to.

The problem is that although I am not going to say I am poor, the professions you mention overall earn more than the average childminder. It is still very uneven that although we are told that we are "professionals", and undertake as much work as say, reception class teachers. I am not full at the moment, and although work 53 hours, on average I don't earn more than £3 an hour but am expected to do an awful amount of work. I understand this is my chosen job, but I started this before the EYFS and had had my workload increased substantially, so don't really feel self-employed.

Moan over

Rosie, I completely agree & it is a travesty that childcare professionals (not just CM's)are so badly paid compared to other professional roles but creating a qualified workforce that is recognised & respected is the first step towards improving our conditions. I know it won't help much until the Govt (no matter which party) realise that they need to give working parents more support for paying childcare but it is a move in the right direction.
I also agree about the paperwork (I'm doing paperwork avoidance right now lol) - I'm lucky enough to only work 4 days per week but I still never catch up. I too got an outstanding just before EYFS and I also doubt I'll repeat it, as much because it depends so much on who you get on the day and their interpretation of what is correct. I don't do planning as such - it's pretty much all child led and then I extend their ideas by adding in resources or making suggestions. Having seen the Learning Journals produced by local nurseries I have cut down dramatically on the number of obs I do. My fall down at the moment is keeping up to date with stuff like Risk assessments.
Moan away lol :)

as usual people mix up doing a 'professional' job to a very high standard with having to go to bloody uni or get endless paper qualifications that mean jack shit!!!

I left nursing as the students coming through to my ward couldnt even perform a bed bath, and to ask them to clean a locker, never mind a dirty bottom, got me a look like I was joking wasnt I!!and these were 3 years.. jesus it was scary..

it makes me sick to see how standards of nursing care have dropped simply because 18 year old girls and lads who had a vocation, learnt on the wards what nursing was all about and did a bloody good job have now been replaced by those with degrees....

see Stafford hospital.. disgraceful...

its the same with cms, all the ones I know havnt got a level 3.. doesnt mean they cant do a bloody good job..

ncma are a waste of bloody space and seem to spend all their time creeping around the government in power rather than sticking up for cms and commen sense...

add to that I actually feel that its government policy to squeeze all home child care providers out of the market so all children attend nursery settings.. that must be the case or else they are stupid.. and sadly ncma are the lemmings voting for their own and our destruction....

How in the world can you earn less than £3 per hour? CMs I know charge about £6 - £7 per hour per child. Say they have 4 kids. That's £28 per hour minus expenses. Must be at least £18 per hour profit.

Average profit is 2/3 to 50% actual income
thebody - I sympathise & totally disagreed wiwhen they changed nurse training (my sister is a nurse & I heard many stories from her too) & perhaps didn't express myself very well. I quite agree that theoretical knowledge alone is not sufficient & definitely not classifiable as a 'professional'. It is competence coupled with knowledge that is the key. A naturally skilled, experienced childcare practitioner is worth their weight in gold but if you add good quality training to their skills that more than doubles as they can then apply their skills in a more informed way. ie if you know why you do something you can then think if there are different & possibly better ways of doing it.

I charge £3.50 per hour, only allowed 3 under 5 - not full at the moment, only had 1 all day yesterday 2 today, after taking into account expenses, last year on average I had a net income of just over £3 per hour. (not including all the extra hours doing paperwork/cleaning etc)

I have purchased quite a lot of new equipment, as well as a very cold winter our fuel bills are horrific, keeping the whole house warm all day, (don't have central heating, just a few storage heaters, so have to use expensive other-ways to keep the house warm) although you can claim a percentage, it doesn't cover the current costs. I have had also had to cut back on playgroups etc. as I live in a very rural area and the nearest town is a 20 minute drive, this year is looking particularly hard, and yes I know many people are struggling as well in the current climate, so am not looking for sympathy, but it has made me wonder about the coming year, whether is is worth it or not.

I guess it depends largely on where you are. I'm sure West London childminders make LOTS more than what you describe.

You should perhaps be saying "profit" and not "income". You are not on a salary. You are running a small business for a profit.

The problem with childcarers pay is that what you might like to earn is not affordable for the market you serve. Parents simply can't afford to pay more. I believe the government should make all childcare tax deductable, and then parents could afford to pay you more, stay in work, and continue tp pay the rest of their income tax. This would of course take money out of the governments pocket and put it into yours, so I daresay they won't consider it. But, you do have to remember that parents don't all have deep pockets.

As for not having your spaces full, as a small business owner, that is up to you to adress. Better advertising? Changes to your service? Are other childminders around you full?