Is this a really mean hourly rate for a nanny?

[headfairy]

I currently pay £8.50 ph net to our nanny who has 9 years nannying experience. She has decided to move on and I'm seeing a few new nannies next week. One of them is 21, cache level 2 qualified, but has no sole charge experience (she's worked in nurseries). I was thinking of offering her £7.50 ph net based on her lack of experience.

She sounds lovely, and all her emails have been really nicely written as was her cv, so I hope that's not too low a salary.

Why are you offering net?

Agree offer gross! By all means work out the equivalent net wage, and £7.50 doesn't sound bad at all. Nannynick knows the link for a net/gross calculator (hopes Nick is along soon...)

Only because I know how much we were paying our previous nanny and we'd worked it all out as net... so I knew where I stood iyswim. What does a £7.50 net rate work out gross then?

I know a gross rate is preferable, but just about every nanny I've seen this time and last time have asked for a net salary. It was just what I got used to working in.

I think I've seen nannynicks net/gross calculator, but it works out weekly, rather than hourly so I can never seem to get an accurate figure for a gross rate.

Where abouts are you?

Use calculator.kistax.com/ for converting between net and gross - it shows hourly, weekly, monthly and yearly and also changes for different days/hours worked

I currently get £8.50ph net as a level 2 qualified nanny with 3yrs exp, so I'd say £7.50ph would be fine!

thanks for that link nannybeth, is there a way of putting in a net rate and finding out the gross rate?

ohno, we're in Surrey

Yes, you must offer a gross salary. Ours is on around £12.05 and hour, which is roughly equivalent to £9 p/h net.

Can't really judge the rate unless you say where you live

ok, nannybeth, ignore me I'm being dim :o I've found the way of doing net to gross conversion!

7.50 nett for a 21yr sounds a very good wage

but yes offer gross :)

I need to be more firm don't I? I just get talked round to a gross rate. I'm going to have a list of gross rates written down on my hand so I can refer to them so as not to be befuddled :o

Only a few years ago I was on just over £7 an hour Gross - as a Level3 qualified nanny with prior sole charge experience.

With regard to Gross rates, it is best to have the gross rate in the contract otherwise you may find that you pay their student loan or other things deducted at source/via taxcode. We have had numerous message threads on the subject.

When interviewing nannies it is a good idea to have a table of wages based on the number of hours per week you are needing them to work - with the gross figure and net figure (using standard taxcode, plus also using BR taxcode). Also include Employers NI and a total cost column, so you can see at a glance how an extra 50p per hour net changes your overall cost.
In April each year, the taxcode often changes. For example this year, 647L will change to 747L (I think, MrA will probably be able to correct me if I'm wrong). This is due to the Personal Allowance changing from £6475 to £7475. See HMRC: Income Tax Rates

What is your prospective nannies current job? Are they still at nursery? Nursery wages are not great... £13k-£16k seems fairly typical in Surrey for someone fully qualified. Level2 isn't fully qualified, so I expect they are on less. Have they said what their current salary is? If not, could you look at nursery job ads to get a feel for what their salary would probably be, such as via GreatCare (I've pre-programmed the search, if it works, to give you job listings in South East.

headfairy - given your past messages about nannies... are you this time insisting that applicants are already Ofsted Registered? If you have a stockpile of vouchers, then I suggest you don't interview anyone who isn't already registered as those vouchers will expire - check with your voucher provider for details of expiry date and if they have anyway of extending that date.

Something else to consider... you can always increase salary after probation has been completed, and also at subsequent pay reviews.

Hi nannynick... She's not currently employed so I can't compare what she's currently earning, but I will ask her about her previous pay. I presume that's an acceptable question to ask?

As for Ofsted vouchers, I will wait until we've employed someone before deciding what to do with them. If we do go for someone who's already registered then fab, because we can pay them the first months salary entirely in vouchers. Kiddivouchers have told me they never expire, but if I choose not to use them, they can be refunded back to me via my employers payroll (so tax and NI can be deducted)

I'm definitely going to sit there with a table of salaries and net and gross conversions, dh is beloved of xcel so I'll get him to do something, so as you say, we can see immediately just how much that extra 50p costs us. He was pretty good last time when we were negotiating, and worked it out roughly, but it's always better to have an accurate figure.

The prospective nanny will have to care for a 1 year old and a 3 year old three days a week 0900-1900, with the 3 year old going to pre-school for 2.5 hours on two of those days. Not much else really, no after school activities. I pretty much left it up to our previous nanny as to how much or how little she did. She actually did very little by the way of organised clubs, but spent a lot of time doing messy fun and going out for walks which was fine with me. I think with future nannies I'd be quite happy for that to continue.

I don't know if you are able to ask about previous salary. Expect you can but also expect they can refuse - as if they give you a P45 you could look on that and see how much they were paid in tax year up to the date of the P45. They don't need to give you a P45 though, they could send it directly to the tax office and complete a P46 for you.

If someone isn't currently employed, you would want to find out why that was... such as reason for leaving their last job (they may have been made redundant).

I think she's been temping since her daughter was born last year, hence she's not currently employed. While that would be great for us as we're pretty up the creek at the moment (last nanny handed her notice in during her probationary period - told us on the Monday that Friday - today - was her last day) but of course I need to be sure she's not been fired etc...

so the nanny you are interested in is a nwoc

then 7.50 nett is more than enough - tbh you could probably drop it to maybe 8gross

yes Blondes... thanks for the tip, perhaps I'll start offering her as you say £8.50 gross and see what she says... can always work up from there. I will also say that we can review every year and after probation if it's all going well. Might be an incentive to stay on until after her probation at least!

Did I hear my name?

Yes Nick you are right, PA goes from £6,475 to £7,475 so everyone with an 'L' tax code gets an automatic increase in tax free pay - worth £3.84 a week to most nannies. Also, the NI threshold is going up which is worth another £3.19 if you earn £139 a week although the rate is also going up so the more you earn the less this is worth. I might do some tables once 31 January has passed, but on the figures here of 30 hours a week at £8.50 an hour which gives £7.09 net, next tax year this becomes £7.29 - an increase of 2.75%.

You should find than an extra 50p net costs you 82p including Employers NI this year rising to 84p next year.

Glad you found you way round my calculator - it is due a rewrite so any suggestions for making it easier to use will be gratefully received!

Yes, of course you can ask what her current and previous salaries have been - this is standard on application forms for many jobs, and also standard to confirm this when checking references; I have never heard of an applicant refusing to say.

Finally, £8.50 an hour gross sounds a good rate to me for someone with no qualification or sole charge experience in Surrey (possibly a bit more or less depending on local area). But are you saying she is going to bring her own 1 year old? This basically means you will be paying her to look after her own child! Assuming you are happy with this, I think it takes the rate right down, although you can't go below the £5.93 NMW.

thats my thoughts Mr A - a young nwoc should earn a decent wage but not at the same rate as another 21yr without a child

most nannies accept jobs at maybe 10/20% less

It's funny you should mention a lower rate for a nwoc... every time I've mentioned it on here (and other forums) I've been roundly flamed for even suggesting that I should pay a lower rate. The argument was that I was getting a nanny, I should pay her what the going rate is. No one agreed with me that if a nannny brings her own child with her then her attention is split 3 ways rather than 2 ways which is bound to have an impact on the care she can offer.

Unless a nanny is returning to the same job after maternity leave, lower pay is usual for a nwoc - around 20% less than going rate.

headfairy - i totally agree with you :)

a nwoc should be paid slightly less as they have the privilege of bringing their own child to work (in NO other job would this happen)

plus the nanny doesnt need to find childcare and pay costs to cm/nursery etc - compared to them working full time and then finding childcare for maybe 50 a day if using a cm

they obviously wont be giving 100% attention to your child/ren and this does reflect in the pay i feel

not sure why others on here.other forums would think differently - im not saying they should be paid nmw, or 50% less as it is not a share but more like 10/20& less then the going rate

headfairy there is an at least as strong a counter argument to the 'equal pay' one. What you have is similar to a nanny share. In a share, the nanny is usually paid 10-20% more than otherwise. A family with only one child in the share might expect a 40:60 split, so the 'main' family might pay 60% of 120% of a normal salary, so roughly 70% or 30% less than normal.

But theoretical calculations are not relevant, all that matters is what the employer is willing to pay for the services of a particular individual and how much that individual is willing to work for given the circumstances of the job. If the nanny would like 10% less than normal and the employer would like 30% less, 20% sounds like a good compromise!