issues with new nanny - how to approach it?

[motherpeculiar]

she works for me two days a week. we have a contract and we are paying well (I think) plus all her taxes/NI etc.

initially I had been looking for a mother's help, and this was the ad she responded to. We discussed it in interview and I explained that I also wanted help around the house, where possible. in the contract the job is called mother's help and I stipulated her responsibilities as looking after kids, keeping their stuff organised/tidy, making their beds etc and then helping around the house. the referee i spoke to (family who have her 3 days a week) said she had a marvellous work ethic and receommended her without reservation

she has been with us 3 weeks now and so far has left the house on more than one occasion laving the kids toys scattered around, she has only tidied their bedrooms/put away their clothes when I have explitly asked her to, and last Monday when I left her to her own devices she didn't even go up to DD1s room so the bed wasn't made or anything. In DD2s room all her nappies were left out where I had put them in a rush that morning and not put away and she had done nothing extra at all around the house.

I do appreciate that with two kids the amount of extra help I can expect is likely to be minimal and so that isn't what I am concerned about, but I really would have expected her to use her own initiative in terms of tidying the kids rooms etc.

One other thing - I work from home a lot and DD1, once the initial novelty wore off, had taken to coming up to me in my office when she is bored/upset. Nanny doesn't come after her to try to get her back, just leaves her up here with me. I appreciate it takes time for DD1 to warm to her but surely she should have strategies for this? I have also had to change DD1 twice after potty accidents while nanny is downstairs cooing over the baby (whom she seems extremely fond of)

I like this woman and don't want to have to go through the whole palaver of finding someone again. i also want to give her a fair chance. But I don't want to have to keep reminding her of stuff we had agreed and that I went to the trouble of putting in writing.

Does anyone have any suggestions on how to broach this/what actions to take. I am notoriously slow to confront and tend to seeth quietly, which I know wouldn't be good in this instance.

Thanks

Is she a nanny or a mother's help?

I had a mother's help over the summer, and have occasionally had one on odd evenings since (I call them that- and described that as the job- although they are employed via SS). Whenever they work I am equally involved with the children. So for example last week when someone was here she fed the baby whilst I cooked for the other 2, the she miinded ds2 and ds3 whilst I looked after ds1.

Likewise in the summer I had someone in each afternoon- she took ds2 and ds3 out whilst I looked after ds1. Apart from ne afternoon whenmy mum had ds1 (and my mother;s help had ds2 and ds3) I was equally hands on with the children.

If youa re emplying a nanny then yes- she should take full responsibility for the children/remove them from your office etc. but if you are emplying a mother's help then I think you expect too much.

sorry, I didn't make it completely clear - I advertised for a mother's help - she responded but she has 5 years nanny experience and I am paying nanny wages (well, what she asked for anyway - 7pounds per hour PLUS I pay her tax, NI etc, so it works out about 12pounds per hour). We agreed that she should have sole charge of the children, but I also said I needed help around the house when possible (ie stuff I think most nanny positions don't entail, and I made this clear at interview and she claimed to have no problem with any of this). My point is that she is not even doing what I understand a nanny should do (kids rooms/tidying after play etc) not to mind any extra. And as I said in the post earlier I do appreciate she won't be able to do much extra at all, so I don't have the hump about that, it's the basic stuff that's she's not doing that's bothering me.

I guess I just need to talk to her about it, but I don't want to risk souring tings with her at this early stage (or indeed at any stage!)

any thoughts?

You are paying a good rate, I paid £8 per hour for our nanny.

I also had a nanny who did no tidying up, the kids toys were always a total tip and I found myself at the weekends sorting everything out. If I came home from work early, I would start dealing with the kids and would intimate that I was now in charge of kids. She thought this meant that she could go home early, not that she should run a broom round the kitchen or tidy up their bedrooms. PS: Yours isn't called Jackie is she?

No advice really, we gave her notice in the end because we couldn't stand her, thought she was lazy and wasn't convinced about her relationship with the kids. For us it was great, as I left my job but that is another story.

Do you have any other issues with her?

After three weeks of a new job is a very standard time to review how things are going generally, so I think it wouldn't at all be a surprise to her if you were to suggest the two of you sat down for a chat - sometime when the children aren't around. We have dinner with our nanny once a month, with wine, very important, so we can all chat through whatever's going on, and it's as relaxed as those things can ever be.

You could then use your written job description as a structure for the chat, on a kind of fact-finding basis - ie you ask her how x and y bits of the job are going, you can compliment her on the good things, ask if there's anything she wants to raise, any suggestions she has for things to do with the children, etc.; and it will not be too difficult (not understating this, I do know how difficult it can be) to address things you would like done differently. You might find that she hasn't interpreted the job description the same way, for instance. We tried to approach it by acknowledging it can be a big job, but from our point of view the priorities are a b and c (for instance, she was doing our laundry and we said please give that low priority)

So in your place one of your priorities would be being able to work uninterrupted. Eg.

Could you suggest a review, just to clarify a few issues after this initial 'settling in' period? Encourage her to raise anything that's bothering her, then let her have it . Think it's entirely reasonable, to in a constructive fashion review her duties, and spell out things that need improving. Appeal to her, as an experienced professional, to help you think of ways around them. (I'm a big fan of appealing, myself. You allow the other person to take the credit for stumbling on a solution which has been, for you, glaringly obvious.)
You're paying a good rate, and she did apply to your ad in which you made it very clear what you were expecting, so don't be too hesitant. Much better to clarify things early on, to avoid future seething.

Hi Kaz - nope she's not called Jackie

the only other issues I have with her I am not even sure yet if they are issues. One thing I am a bit concerned about is the way she is dealing with my DD1 (just over 3). DD1 is a bit of a handful, nothing major - just lots of energy which needs channelling correctly. Nanny seems to be a bit strict, but fair (nothing too much wrong with this - I even thought we might be ableto learn a bit from her) but I don't feel she has really warmed to DD1 yet (or vice versa). In the meantime she seems extremely ond of DD2 - who is of course very easy to be fond of being a six month old gurgly coo-ey baby who doesn't throw tantrums or have toilet accidents or challenge authority in any way. Nanny seems to focus in on her and possibly ever so slightly ignore DD1. I'm not sure if I am imagining this or what but it's a slight niggle just now.

Both the references for this woman were very very good. Is it me?

Did you include a probatinary period in your contract? I think after a month in the job, it is reasonable for both parties to sit down and discuss how things are progressing from both sides. I would go in with an agenda of things you are happy with, things you would like changed, then reiterate all the good points. I think the technical term is a "shit sandwich". I would also follow up from the meeting with a short email/note to accompany her contract, with an agreed review date say 3 months hence, with actions you are both prepared to take. Sort of a short term contract. I would make it clear that you think the basics of a job are not being done,and given the wages you are paying, you are fully entitled to expect them to be adhered to.

thanks binkie and bakedpotato (woooh)

that's exactly what is required. of course. a review. That's what I wanted - a chance for her to tell her side without feeling I was accusing her of anything. Good to hear this is normal practice (can you tell I am new to this?)

will get on the case. As i said I do like the woman and think it should work out ok with the right attitude on both sides.

thanks

[feeling very dim now] [but grateful ]

I think the easiest thing is to try to find a quiet time and start off by asking her if she feels ok with the job, if she's happy etc. listen to what she says, then it's your turn - but start off with something complementary - "we're really hapy with x, y, z" then you can can say "we were wondering though if you could perhaps establish a bit more of a routine for tidying up/making the beds" - maybe suggest she gets your dd involved - "we think it's important that she learns she needs to help tidy up". I know it's difficult (I need to have teh same conversation myself) but you'll feel so much better for doing it, and if she's reasonable, she won;t mind. Also make sure you respond/make changes if she expresses any legitimate concerns from her side

thanks milge - at the "shit sandwich"

yes, we do have a probationary period of one month so best to review before we reach the end of that. She is in tomorrow so I will see if I can arrange a good time with her then. The kids will be around all day tomorrow so best not to do it then I guess.

thank you hatstand - good idea about getting DD1 involved. Apart from anything else I do want DD1 to start taking a bit more responsibility for her stuff.

Good luck! We have had all these sort of meetings with our ex-nanny but to absolutely no avail. Had the chat about "we think the kids are old enough to be able to make their own beds and to tidy up", now she is gone they have absolutely no concept and when I asked them if nanny had ever shown them how they said "no". As for the interruptions at work I too had to work at home at times and no matter how many times I told nanny or made rumblings she never took the hint that the DD's should within reason not disturb me. In fairness I did not mind the odd interruption because it gave me a break but when they were there all the time and I am talking as loud as possibly can for them to go donwnstairs and she did not appear. Oh well I am now having a rant and apologise, just needed it when I saw this.

I think you need to lay down the rules and be firm that is where I made my mistake because I was always trying to be too nice.

Hope you can sort things.

thanks horridmum - I am now filled with dread again!

that's exactly what happens when DD! come sup to me. I talk loudly about how she needs to be downstairs and how I am at work etc and nanny hasn't once appeared. On one occasion DD got ina real strop and wet herself (she was a bit under the weather too) and I ended up cleaning and changing her and bringing her downstairs in a new outfit to find nanny oblivious and cooing over the baby. Ggggrrrr.

I will get it addressed before it makes me seethe, I will!

Ah yes you are paying nanny rates- she should definitely be taking sole chargoe of the children.

I wanted to add - & horridmum reminded me - that how these chats/reviews actually go is a huge indicator as to the future in the job. So if you get horridmum's experience of lip-service + no immediate putting-into-effect then it's not a good sign. (And of course worse if you get denials or challenges .. but it doesn't sound as if you'll get that.)

I don't know if it would be at all helpful, but I thought I might give you an idea of what we discussed with our nanny at our last regular review meeting: it was - the Childcare Approval scheme, whether she wants me to give her a reference for her PGCE, how the weekly float money is going, whether she'd like me to look into organic veg boxes, that we don't know exactly what we're doing for Christmas so if she's got any plans she wants priority for would she let us know by x date, what do we all think dd wants for her birthday, that ds's school behaviour is pretty bad and her suggestion that regular playdates might help and she will decide who to ask, whether she agrees bedtimes ought to be earlier, would she please keep an eye on what the children aren't playing with so we can have a clear-out of toys; that we are delighted with her work and does she have anything she wants to bring up ...

I hope that gives a useful view of the give-and-take of what (credit to her, definitely) is a very good relationship.

Binkie you are really on the ball. Your method sounds brilliant because it really involves in nanny in the whole decision making process, rather than saying do this or why didn't you do that. That is great advice because it gets her whole thought process going as well motivating her so she is part of a team rather on her own.

Well done!!! Must remember this if I ever employ a nanny again.

thanks binkie - that is really useful. that is definitely the way I want to go ie involving her in the decision making all along the way. I think it is a bit difficult as we only have her two days in the week (and they aren't even together) so its hard (for all of us) to get the right rhythm going. I am sure if her attidude is right (which I do think deep down it is) we'll get there.

just had DD1 up here hanging onto my chair, interfering with my pc etc again and nanny nowhere to be seen. Must definitely get a strategy to cope with this. (go into the office in town )

thanks, you two!!
Just one last last thing about reviews - I keep notes, you could even say minutes, so I can make sure I've done the things I said I would. Like the organic veg. Any recommendations?

organic veg recommendations you mean? if you are in London I can recommend Abel and Cole highly. Other friends use riverford (I think they are called) and think they are good. Thanks for reminding me to go check my order for this week.

River Nene for organic veg delivery - do you get it in your area?

Just wanted to add that when I looked after a family both parents worked from home .I had four kids to look after plus my own so rather a busy (and great fun ) job but when the kids eacaped to the office as kids do it was really hard for me to always bring them back down as obviously they wanted to see mum (not so much dad LOL) so in the end I suggested that they had to be the strong ones as well and send them down so the kids got the message from them as well ,its tough being the one to always say NO you cant see mummy when really mummy should be saying NO to the child as well . Just my point of view.Oh and yes she is being a lazy mare re housework she took on the mothers help role so she must get on with it ,it can work to her advantage having mum in the house ,have you thought of putting her with your older child a bit more with out the baby say going to do " FUN " things she might see a different side to the child and lets be honest in your childs eyes mummy up stairs (albeit working ) nanny cooing over baby ,(sat on sofa ) no contest is it mummy V nanny mummy wins every time .

Could you manage to juggle your work in such a way that you could take baby for a few hours eg late in the afternoon and then ask nanny to take out 3yo and do something just the 2 of them to let them bond a bit better? Just till things get a bit better?

thanks tracy and mandie - great suggestions.

mandie, believe me I do tell DD1 she needs to go back down, very strongly, and loudly so nanny can hear. I guess nanny wants to see how I manage it, and god knows DD has a will of iron so it would be useless both of us up here trying to wrestle her out. Still, some acknowledgement of it as a problem from her would help! Anyway, we'll talk and try to sort it out. If anyone has some other can't fail tips for how to manage this bit I would be eternally grateful!!!

Definitely a good idea to let nanny and DD1 bond without baby (and a GREAT excuse for me to grab some time on my own with baby too )

thanks guys

Sounds like she is taking the michael! If she is an experienced nanny of 5yrs (relevant exp) then your position should be a walk in the park..as you seem to be very supportive for nanny. You will need to speak to her soon, 3 whole weeks you have punished yourself/family. You appear to be paying a professional nanny rate etc.. you need value for money!

Most exp nannies in early days would love to escape to the park etc here they can bond with the children..fun & laughter.

Sounds to me childcarer/nanny has not looked after a baby before or your babbies age (or for a long time) & she has forgotton herself, she is being employed & there is also another child in the household who ALSO needs her.

An experienced nanny will know how to run her routine or build towards it children (both) primary, chores second, but IS capable of doing both. Of course a 3yr is very demanding when Mummy etc is around (specially in the new job) but you have informed nanny you will back, so it is for nanny to come & collect the 3yr old.

If this is to continue ..why bother to employ anyone what is mean't to be an experienced nanny (hardly as it seems, meaning experienced)

Good luck