Terms and conditions for self-employed nanny

[nannyquery]

I've been using a local self employed nanny on an ad hoc basis, but am now going to use her more regularly so need to sort out terms and conditions. She has said she wants:
5 weeks paid annual leave
2 weeks paid sick leave (which she is very likely to use as she likes to attend appointments with her husband who has a chronic health condition)
Half pay as a retainer for all school holidays when she won't be needed.

This seems rather a lot - she'll basically be being paid either full or half wages fro 20 weeks of the year while not working.
I was going to suggest that if she has holidays as a retainer she should take her annual leave during this time. Just to give you a full picture she gets £9 an hour for looking after 2 children and as she is self employed she can (and sometimes does) look after other children att he same time as long as she's within the limits of her nanny insurance.

Another issue is she has been talking of getting ofsted registered for months but hasn't done anything about it. This is loosing me £50 a month as I can't use vouchers so was wondering if I could say I would provide a further 2 weeks leave if she got registered?
Anyway, could anyone suggest what is reasonable? I don't want to be unfair, but this seems a bit one-sided.

Paula - I suppose this is what I'm really trying to get to the bottom of. She basically works on a similar model to a CM (although works in clients home) where she contracts to work a specific time and period. AS with a CM, the contract would include an agreement about holidays etc. - I think this can vary with childminders. I suppose it doesn't seem strange to me as this is also the model of SE i use - I pick up short term contracts that require me to do a certain amount of work (specified in days) within a given time.

PS just read the above post n=and it's ot clear - I don't work in childcare

OP - in response to your post to ME, the fact that she is doing work ad hoc for other families when SHE chooses (which may also be when she is working for you) may be part of what qualifies her to be self-employed in the eyes of HMRC. It might be what they consider when deciding how much control she has over when and for how long, under what circumstances, etc she works for people. It's something to weigh up I guess- how much that would bother you - and whether perhaps the whole picture of what she is offering mean that some compromises makes sense. Maybe you should advertise for a term time only nanny and see what shakes out.

OP - in response to your post to ME, the fact that she is doing work ad hoc for other families when SHE chooses (which may also be when she is working for you) may be part of what qualifies her to be self-employed in the eyes of HMRC. It might be what they consider when deciding how much control she has over when and for how long, under what circumstances, etc she works for people. It's something to weigh up I guess- how much that would bother you - and whether perhaps the whole picture of what she is offering mean that some compromises makes sense. Maybe you should advertise for a term time only nanny and see what shakes out.

OP - in response to your post to ME, the fact that she is doing work ad hoc for other families when SHE chooses (which may also be when she is working for you) may be part of what qualifies her to be self-employed in the eyes of HMRC. It might be what they consider when deciding how much control she has over when and for how long, under what circumstances, etc she works for people. It's something to weigh up I guess- how much that would bother you - and whether perhaps the whole picture of what she is offering mean that some compromises makes sense. Maybe you should advertise for a term time only nanny and see what shakes out.

FWIW when I was a self emplyed nanny, I also worked on occasion for 2 families at the same time.

The status officer at HMRC explicitly told me that even if I was looking after more than 1 families children if I worked for any duration I would then become an employee.

Have a look at my post from 2008, here

HTH

Some IR35 cases if anyone fancies a read. Some seem to deal with if someone is employed status or not.

Thanks all for your input and help!
My main concern over advertising for another nanny (and indeed becoming the employer of this one)still rests on the fact that it may end up only being short term if DH loses his job, which seems very unfair to the nanny. Not sure if anyone would be interested if I was up front about the situation (which I feel I would have to be)

You have had some good advice here. A couple of other points:

If you let her look after other people's children in your home on her terms this is a very unusual situation which leaves you potentially exposed to all sorts of problems, whatever happens you should stop this.

Sick leave is only available to an employee who is unable to work due to ill health or injury. Time off related to the sickness of children, spouses or other people is not sick leave. If you want to agree to give paid time off for this purpose in additional to annual leave, you could call it Additional Paid Leave or something similar.

It is common for people with nannies who need them less in school holidays to say that annual leave may only be taken during school holidays.

Every employee runs the risk of their job ceasing to exist because of a change in the economic circumstances of their employer. Unless you are reasonably certain your DH is going to lose his job (in which case it would be fair to employ on a temporary contract), there is nothing unfair in giving someone a job.

She wants to have her cake and eat it. I appreciate childcare may be thin on the ground but you have to look after yourself. As MrA says looking after children from other families alongside yours in your home is risky - what if there was an accident involving your house that nanny wasn't liable for? It wouldn't be coveted by her insurance and I doubt your home insurance woukd cover it.

Remove that and like whoever it was upthread I suspect you remove a big part of the justification for her being SE.

The very nature of being SE means she shouldn't get sick pay or holiday. If she's sick she doesn't work and doesn't get paid, if she wants holiday/time off for appointments she takes it and she doesn't get paid.

SE works on an ad hoc basis, even over a long period of time but the minute it starts becoming regular and there's a weekly expectation for an indefinite period that becomes employment. I would employ her on £9 gross (you will be covering her tax and NI) plus her mileage so she's effectively getting a small increase and if you can afford it go halves on her OFSTED registration which is £50 you'll recover with 1 month of vouchers.

Like blondes I don't see why anyone would be SE in a perm job.

In this climate all nannies take a risk when they take a new job that it may not last because nannies are dependant on their employers being in work. It's a fact of working for someone who works for someone else and not a large company directly. Even then you have no greater job stability...

I don't get the thing you say about her looking after other children. Could you explain more about that? Is it happening at your home or elsewhere?

When starting any job, the job may not last long. It is always a risk. I did a nanny job a while back which lasted for a year. Looking back I'm pretty sure the parents knew it would just be for a year but they didn't tell me that when I applied.
Anyone can lose their job at anytime.

ditto risk with any job, years ago i started a job, 3weeks into it mb was made redundant :(

this nanny does want her cake and eat it - she wants perks from being se and employed

as Mr A said,sick pay is just that - not accompany dh to doctor/hospital pay

i take your point about adding bits into a contract that suit her as a childminder would.

However, my childminding contract says that if I am available to work, I get paid but if I'm not available to work, I don't get paid.

Therefore my own holidays are not paid for by the families that use me but if they go away or their child is ill so they cannot attend my setting, I still get paid in fulll as I am available to work.

I think a lot of childminders operate the same way so why should a self employed nanny (who should be employed), get something different?