Retainer issue

[Cathcarter]

I would appreciate advice on my situation. I have 2 children who are looked after by a childminder since 2006. I have a 6 month old and since my son went to school in September freeing up his space I have been paying a 100% retainer to keep the place for my DD who is due to start in January. On Friday my childminder gave me 4 weeks notice to terminate the contract. We have had an excellent relationship over the last 4 years but I feel very wronged about the amount of money I have paid for no benefit. My childminder has stated that the place is still open for my DD to start in January so she hasn't done anything wrong. I don't want to put my DD with someone for just 3 weeks but my childminder has stated that this is my choice and the place is still open for my DD to start as we agreed. She is a popular childminder and said that she did us a favour keeping the place open as she could have filled it easily. I am unsure what to do...

Yes, that is correct. The place has been used occasionally by my son who started school (1/2 term) and after school care so there has been some benefit to us for the money we have paid but only 2 hours a day rather than the 9 we paid for. I have had such an excellent relationship over the last 4 years that I don't want to end it on a bad note but feel really let-down. Should I take it up with her or just leave it as one of life's lessons?

what about your other child that goes to the childminder? Is that correct that you have two already with her?
Has she given you a reason? Is she giving up childminding?

Legally fine I think but morally that is BANG OUT OF ORDER!!!! Is she quitting childminding? It doesn't make sense if not!

I took a deposit a couple of years ago to reserve a space from Oct to February when the space would be needed. In that time I found out I was pregnant. I was still available to take her child but as it meant I'd be closing for 12 weeks about 4 months later than mindee starting, I contacted her, made big apologies for messing her planning and offered to give the deposit back if she didn't use me. Least I could do even though I needed the money! This mindee DID start with me and is still here almost 3 years later BUT I'd have more than happily given her money back under the circumstances, that's the correct thing to do MORALLY!

I do feel for you, especially at 100% retainer rate :(

Notice has been given for both places so whilst my DD who has been going there for the last year can continue the last working day is 21st Jan for both places. She is giving up childminding. My eldest daughter (2.5yrs) can continue there until 21st Jan as she is settled and happy but I don't want to put t my baby with her for just 3 weeks. After this date I will need to look for 2 childcare spaces for 3 days a week (our current arrangement) but every childminder I have rung has told me the time frame is too short and it will be very difficult to place them together.

I would think that legally there is an issue - you have been paying her in good faith for a service that you are expecting her to provide, and at the last minute you are not getting that service.

If you paid several months in advance for theatre tickets and the production was cancelled, you would either be offered a refund or a later date/different show, no? Is this not similar?

Does she expect to be paid for the last 4 weeks of the notice period, too?

She should refund your money - she has taken money from you for a service that she won't provide.

This is terrible! can I just say though there may be newly registered childminders in your area who have the space (I am one of these). Personally I think this is well out of order and you may have a legal case here - contact the ncma maybe?

Also, she must have KNOWN she was giving up surely? If so then its even worse.

You could certainly argue that at least some of the retainer should be refunded, but the biggest problem is that you have had some tangible benefit from what you have paid - the after school and other care you have had for your DS. And if he is taking up a full time place that she could have filled otherwise, the 'cost' to her of providing this benefit is 100% of her fee.

You should try to negotiate some concession, but I wouldn't fancy your chances in court.

aceandskill - I agree - it is a terrible blow to us and means I can't return to work at the end of my maternity leave. I'm based in Bristol - do you know where I would find newly-registered minders? I looked at the Family Information Directory but no luck. I don't want to persue this legally. I don't know if I'm too soft but I don't want to forget how amazing my childminder has been over the last 4 years and I'm keen to end it amically if I possibly can. I don't think she is in a position to pay us back anyway, to be honest.

I think she's been pretty clever as if she'd have not been available AT ALL due to the timing of the notice, she should refund the retainer according to NCMA contract (although as been pointed out, you have had SOME benefit but surely you could deduct the difference, depends how this was written up in the contract?) But the fact she IS available for a short time, sort of buggers it up for you. Although her notice shouldn't include any holidays - is she taking any time off over Christmas? It's worth chatting to NCMA I think.

As for looking at online directory - newly reg'd ones may not be listed yet plus not all of us want to be online so you're definitely best phoning them direct as they'll have the full list - phone number should be on that website.

looneytune - her notice is 4 weeks without holidays which she has given so she has legally fulfilled her contract, I guess. Thank you for suggesting I phone them, I hadn't thought of that.

Mranchovy - I take your point but I would have found an alternative arrangement for my DS for the half term week and after school care if I had known he intentions.

I have just had an e-mail from her and she has stated that she will not change her position on the retainer (ie no refund) but we can stop paying the retainer as of this week.

I think I would have been a bit happier if she had at least acknowledged the inconvenince she has caused and even apologised for the bad timing. All she has done has defend her actions which makes me very sad and that I shouldn't trust people to be honest and upstanding.

You can stop paying the retainer as of this week? That's big of her!

Her attitude would wipe out any pleasant feelings I had towards her and would leave a very sour taste in my mouth.

This sounds dreadfully unfair on you. It may or may not be strictly legal but definitely not what you would expect from an honest person. However, if, just for the sake of argument, she has been offered the job of her dreams completely out of the blue, or has some other unforeseen pressing reason for quitting childminding (illness perhaps) and she has been spending her income as she gets it, she may be unable to raise the cash to repay you immediately and may have gone on the defensive out of embarrassment. Given your previous good relationship, I'm sure you would rather think that than think she has been scheming to cheat you. Would it be worth saying you think you are due a refund but appreciate it might be difficult to do immediately/all at once and see if that changes her view?

If you place your baby with someone else, they may then be able to get what is called a variation to allow them to have your older child as one child over their usual numbers as a temporary measure until they have another proper vacancy arise. If they are willing to do this, an experienced childminder with only one space at present could still be an option.

I suspect there isn't much you can do but I would write her a really eloquent and firm letter saying how disappointed and cheated you feel. No way did she decide this today - for at least some of the last three months she has been taken money from you for a service she had no intention of providing beyond the very short term.

minderjinx - I think you may have hit the nail on the head in that her stance may have been due to an inability to pay back the money.

Thank you for all your comments. I have decided that I don't want to get into legal dispute and have to accept that the money is not recoverable but I will def do as NorthernLurker suggests and write her a letter wishing her well and explaining how and why I feel so disappointed.

I would say probably legally ok, but morally definitely not (unless she has had a major crisis, forcing her to make this decision). If you do find someone with one space, it is definitely worth asking the childminder if they would be interested in phoning Ofsted for a variation, to take the 2nd sibling above their numbers. It is normally only allowed for continuity of care, so it might have to be worded carefully by the CM, but could be possible.

Legally - you have been paying a retainer (not sure why a 100% as a retainer is normally only 50%) BUT - and this is the crux of it - you have used the space, meaning she does not have to refund the money.

Morally - unless she has reasons that have only just occurred meaning she needs to quit work asap then she has boxed VERY clever and misled you IMO. (ie a long term lllness god forbid and unlikely as if that happened to tme i would not be likely to be giving 4 weeks notice)

You say you don't want to pursue it legally which tbh I don't think you'd get too far but I would write her a strongly worded letter.

As to finding another minder; try

your local FIS
www.childmindingforum.co.uk
www.childcare.co.uk
local Netmums

I am confused.

You have paid for a childcare place, but not used it? (meaning the CM has been unable to put another child into that place and get paid)

So there is no issue, as she is now giving up child-minding.

I don't see the issue. perhaps I'm being thick.