Ok , we are sacking our nanny

[Bobbiesmum]

After all your wonderful advice on here we have decided our nanny has got to go. I don't think I will ever get past the fact she was not compassionate enough to help with dd when ds was admitted to hospital, whether she was paid to do this or not.
So if any one has any energy left I could do with a bit more advice!

1. does her refusal to care for dd during her hours of work constituency gross misconduct?
2. Although she has an extensive contract she never actually signed it as she had issues with certain aspects such as 15 mins flexibility either side of the day. I have been at fault letting this slide due to having other things going on with poorly ds. So without a signed contract would I need to give paid notice? I really appreciate all your help

Cant give any advice but think its the right thing to do.

Thanks ! Must admit I am wobbling, I'm not a very hard person!

You don't have to be hard. Having read your threads perhaps you need to think about you and your kids and keep that as your priority? (sorry that sounds hard I do understand; what I mean is keep that in mind when dealing with her.)

Absoloutely, what bloody good advice!

It doesn't matter that she didn't sign the contract, the fact that she's been turning up to work implies she accepts the conditions.

I think you'd have a hard time claiming that as gross misconduct tbh. She is still in a probation period though right? How much is the notice period?

You can either give her notice that she can work, or pay her the notice period and tell her not to turn up again.

I think since there is a contract you've both looked at, even if unsigned, you should probably assume that she could argue that the terms & conditions apply - it's a bit dependent on the facts (how much either side has been referring to & relying on the terms of the contract) & how long she's been with you, but I think the safest approach would be for you to act in accordance with (or at least not be less generous than) the contract.

Did your contract give examples of gross misconduct? - such as refusal to follow instructions? Even if refusal to follow instructions was listed, I think it's a bit of a stretch for it to be "gross" misconduct, especially as there'd been a bit of an understanding developing between you about the cleaning days/taking the ironing home. (Sadly you will have to be more careful about that sort of flexibility next time.)

if shes been working for you or more than three months, its taken as a given that she has accepted the contract conditions, I believe.

I didn't see your original problem, but yes, would think that a nanny who refuses to watch a child during her contracted hours is in breach of contract and yes, I would see this as gross misconduct.

In these circumstances, I would pay her until the end of the month, but ask her to leave immediately without notice.

I think you probably have to follow through with some usual disciplinary proocedures. Even if it hasn't been signed, it is probably best to follow what is laid out in the contract. If you have a probation period and are still in it you may be within you rights to say good-bye with giving a reason.

I would, however, advise caution in citing reasons which you did not address at the time. I just think it's a bit late to say we are letting you go because of x if you did not communicate dissatisfaction with x at the time.

It may even be worth sitting down with her and saying it isn't working and you may find she agrees and will go on her way by mutual agreement.

Bumping for you - have replied on your other thread x

I would just say, we don't need you as family have decided to step in and help after the last serious event. Therefore thank you very much but we cant afford you. Heres a lovely reference ciao arriverdci! Otherwise its gets to stressful and complicated.

You can get advice from ACAS if you would like their view... their advisor's can sometimes be quite helpful in letting you know about employment law.

I would say that Gross Misconduct is unlikely. It would be better all round I feel to simply terminate the agreement, due coming to end of probation and you not feeling that things are working out - that's what probation period is for.

Give notice under the contract... how much notice is stated in the contract for during probation period?

Pay that notice rather than insisting they work that notice.

Remember to add on any payment for holiday not already taken.

As they have worked less than a year, you don't have to give a reason for the dismissal. However I feel you need to consider what you will be doing about reference requests. Talk with her about things that have gone well but end by saying that you don't feel she is a suitable nanny for your family and you wish her luck in finding alternative employment.

Consider how you would like to be treated if you were in the nannies shoes. Be as kind as possible but also firm in that the employment is ending.

Well notice is one month and I actually got the probation period wrong - I thought it was 3 months but it actually only says 1 in the contract.
Problem is one months pay is actually quite a lot given that she earns more than me (!!) and I would also have to pay for alternative childcare. May well just have to stick the awkwardness out.

Can't sue for unfair dismissal in first year, so as long as reason for dismissal is not "automatically unfair" then it's fine to just give notice under the contract. You will need to give a reason for the dismissal though I think. Check that with ACAS.

You should follow disciplinary procedures but it's probably a bit late now as by the sounds of things, you can't work much longer with this nanny. ACAS: Discipline and Grievances at Work booklet explains more about disciplinary procedures.

Agree with everything everyone else has said really.

i read your last post and agree you need to let her go.

A contract is a contract, signed or unsigned you have to go along with it.

Perhaps you can mutually agree to terminate it?
If you just let her go, then employ someone else for the same (or similarish) role within 3 months she could make your life very difficult.

When you do have the Talk with her, you must be clear that you are bringing her contract of employment to an end. I have had to do this at work, and it is horrid to say, but otherwise there is a risk of some doubt. In this sort of situation you need to be explicit, or there might be further misunderstanding later.

Hope it goes ok.

Give her the notice under the contract, even though unsigned. Make it clear that you are going by the contract. Give 'written' notice, and include the reasons, her unflexibility, her reluctance to look after DD and therefore she is not suitable for the position long term.

nannyl - as she has not been employed for a year she can be let go for any reason.

Op is perfectly entitled to get a replacement nanny.

The old nanny cannot make life difficult for OP as she has no right to make a claim for unfair dismissal.

OP should give contractual notice (or pay in lieu) as can still make claim for breach of contract if don't pay contracted notice.

Thankyou everyone, brilliant advice here. I am going to have to ask her to work her notice as I can not afford to pay her and a replacement nanny.