Nanny travelling and work flexibility

[Marville]

Hello,
I am completely new on Mumsnet but find the site very useful so far. I really need some advice on how to deal with my nanny as I want to be fair and generous but not taken advantage of.
I notice that some of you ar equite hard on each other and I do apologise in advance if I offend anybody.

My nanny is working 45 hours per week, without a contract and we have continuously agreed on terms (which is a little bit hard and probably wrong too).

We have agreed on holiday pay for her but I have a problem when we are travelling with the family. One of the main things when hiring was flexibility on travelling on her behalf so when I ask our nanny to come with us this does not come as a surprise to her. Also, when she is not with us I have agreed to pay her weekly salary as normal. However, is it too much to ask that she catches up on some hours lost when she is being paid at home without having to work, when she comes with us on our trips. Or, as she has suggested, should the extra hours put in when going with us abroad instead be put on top as they would should she have worked as normal?

Many thanks for any feedback.

Can't write longer reply but someone will be along...

First things first - you need to sort a contract ASAP. Are you paying her through the books? She is legally entitled to a contract and you are not doing yourself or her any favours by not having one.

To that end, you can't really stipulate anything as far as travel goes - as you have no precedent in the contract. Write what YOU want to write in it and get her to sign it, then you can insist.

IME, travelling with families (I'm a nanny) is extremely stressful and not a nice holiday for the nanny. So I do think you're being unreasonable for wanting her to trade her hours off at home for extra time on holiday - because being on holiday is HARDER work than being at home maintaining the normal routine.

I would pay her extra.

I'm a nanny and I agree I would expect extra payment because it's not my holiday and not my choices.

In the past I have worked in business where I was expected to some national and international travel. Yes I worked in terms of hours a lot less but I was on call 24/7. As is the norm I would be given time off in lieu on return and paid expenses.

I hope this helps this is my experiences

The problem is you really need to (legally and for the sake of clarity) supply nanny with some written statement of what is expected in the job you offered to her and that she has accepted. Either of those payment senarios would be acceptable if agreed in advance.

I have always been paid full for any time I am on call and have had adjoining rooms or suites with the children. If my normal working hours are in play I have always had a separate room to the children and not been paid any extra but I know some nannies are paid a bit more (for the inconvenience of being away from home). Agree hours with nanny before you go and stick to them.

These days I do not take positions where I travel with families because it is sooo difficult having parents turn up/ask you to do things randomly with no notice 24/7. Also little things like who tops up the suncream if child is asking sunbathing/reading parents to do it, can I go for a quick swim while parents are playing with children or am I obliged to join in/hang around and watch. Not to mention how confused the children get as to who has ultimate say over decisions/plans and how they change. Can really mess up nanny-child bond of respect.

In general terms though, if your children/you are not there/on holiday when nanny is available to work and then another time she works extra you should pay her extra for that time, as well as her normal pay for when you withheld her ability to work by going away. As a nanny, I would not agree to an in lieu arrangement, especially if it involved a holiday.

I travel a great deal with my job (nanny) and nanny travel is hard for all the reasons mentioned already. The key it it working is a good contract. Flexibility to the employer usually IME means the nanny is on call 24/7 and however exotic the destination might sound it cannot be used as compensation as it is not the nannies holiday. It is work and can be thoroughly unpleasent at that as the children are out of their routine, often jet lagged and have the irresistible chance to play parents off on the nanny every time. If you want flexibility when you travel I would argue you have to pay for it and get it in a contract.

Can only echo the above. I found travelling were the most horrible times in the job. The first time i went it was with no specified terms and I found myself sharing my room with two of the four children, including a 6 month old baby and when I mentioned the possiblity of going for a walk by myself in the evening they looked at me like I was abandoning all responsibility. I was on call 24/7 and their justification for it was that they had paid for me to have the holiday as well . Was bloody miserable.

When you go away and don't take nanny, could your nanny not take time off as annual leave?

It is your decision to go away, so not reasonable to ask nanny to make up hours later. The agreement between you is that you pay an annual salary, it's not likely to be one where the nanny is only paid whilst working.

As others have said, nanny coming on trips with you is not a holiday for the nanny. You are luckly they don't want extra pay for those trips as the time away will be more than the usual work hours.

Write your contract. Stipulate in it that of the 28 days holiday, half are taken at times of her choosing, half at yours. Then use those you control to give her time off when you are away. If you are away for more than say 10 days (ie there are still 'left-over' days) then put in contract that you will pay her in full and may require her to spend time at your house going through toys, spring-cleaning children's rooms and similar child-centric chores. Any time over and above normal hours on holiday paid as overtime.

Everyone I know does similar so I think this is fair. I have used this time in the past to get labels sewn into uniforms, toys put through dishwasher, bedrooms sorted, and have even sent nanny shopping for school uniform and similar.

BTW, if you do not have a contract, how can you prove you are paying the correct taxes to HMRC? You do know that it is YOU, not HER, who is fully liable for all unpaid tax? If you and she fall out all she has to do is pick up the phone to HMRC and you (not her) would be in very serious hot water

I asked my nanny

Erk, sorry!

I asked my nanny to do some 24 hour care while I went on a short break - not quite the same thing I know.

But what I offered was extra money for MOST of the hours, plus some time off in lieu for some of the hours. BUT - SHE chose which days she wanted to have time off in lieu.

That is not what you're asking, is it?

It wouldn't be fair to insist she take time off in lieu when you are travelling.

An alternative, is have a 45 hour a week paid contract, but she only works 42 hours, and 3 of the hours can be 'built up' for the trips away - but a cap of say 10 hours in total can be built up or something like that.

Many nannies don't do the whole accumulating hours thing. I certainly don't. I'm contracted a certain number of hours but if for some reason I do not have to work them the family do not accrue the hours to use at their convenience as it was not my decision not to work. In temp contracts depending on how nice the family are to me I might be flexible on this if they asked me nicely in advance - like with current wonderful family but I have it written into my contract.

I have gone on holiday with familys in the past In general not a very pleasant experience ,I would be paid my usual rate plus extra hours if they want nights.I am paid all year around generallyI take my holidays when my bosses take theirs,But as it is their choice they pay me.I agree with Squiffy that I am quite happy to come in to do some odd jobs maybe sort out the playroom if the family are away for a longer period that they are paying me for.