Au pair (vs Nanny) - unrealistic expectations?

[MizZan]

Any advice welcome...

We recently had an au pair start with us, to help look after my 3 1/2 year old and baby-to-be (due in Nov.), as well as helping with housework. Up till now we have had nannies, who've had various levels of experience (no formal training for any of them, though). We decided to go with an au pair now because I'm about to go on maternity leave for 4-6 months, and we felt that with the baby it would probably be simpler to have someone live in, and of course with no salary coming in from me we were concerned about cost (my company pays only statutory maternity pay).

The problem is that this woman, while very pleasant, seems unable to keep my son engaged for more than a very short time, largely I think due to language issues (and maybe inexperience with kids his age, though in theory she has looked after kids the same age before). It has become clear that she has a lot of difficulty communicating with him, and the idea that she would think up activities to do with him, impose discipline on him (not that he needs a lot of this, but he is 3 after all), or encourage manners or anything of that sort seems like a distant dream. Her English is minimal, and an intensive English course we paid to send her to seems to have had little impact, and she is not interested in eating any meals with the family or spending any time with any of us outside of her contracted work hours.

As her friends here seem to all be from her home country, I have few hopes that her English will improve much, and would not feel comfortable leaving her alone with my son for a full day (which I had hoped to do sometimes), let alone having her look after a baby. I'm also not thrilled that she has made no effort to pitch in and help with anything around the house unless specifically asked/instructed to do so. I feel a bit like we have a boarder in rather than an au pair.

Were our expectations just totally unrealistic? I'm finding I need to spend so much time fending off my son (I'm still trying to work from home, but getting nothing done) and explaining the most basic things to au pair (e.g., 15-minute instructions required on how to prepare child's dinner every night as she can't cook at all) that it's kind of defeating the purpose of her being here. Aside from (or perhaps related to) the communication problems, she doesn't seem very outgoing or able to show any initiative at all, other than in organising her own social life. She is perfectly nice, otherwise.

Any thoughts, from any of you who have more au pair experience than we do?

I have lots of nanny experience, and no aupair experience, except have lots of friends with au pairs. They seem to come in two sorts - wonderful, warm human dynamos who love children, have huge fun with them, and you have to wrestle to a chair to remove the j-cloth from one hand and saucepan from the .....
and slightly hopeless dippy teenagers you end up either mothering or resenting or both.

Bearing in mind you have a new baby coming, get rid of her and find the other kind!

I've had 3 au-pairs and one of them was like this. Pleasant but useless.

Lots of people become au-pairs purely and simply because they want to learn English and this is the obvious way to do it. However, if you're lucky, you'll find one who also genuinely likes being with children and has a bit more initiative than the one you have. Also, language problems are usually OK after about 3-6 months as well, even with people who have arrived with a minimum of English. If I were you, I'd just get rid of this one and keep looking until you find someone you like.

I'll be watching this with interest.I've been toying with the au pair thing (sahm who spends a lot of time alone ad dh mostly away).
At the moment I have a young lady with me from the counntry my dh works in. She is my Turkish teacher actually and an English graduate,so loose deal was that she's help me out and get a month in the UK.

Now she is charming,great with the children,really helpful around the house,quiet,tidy,just perfect but..........Inow realize that sharing my home with someone is so hard.I don't seem able to relax at all!
I'd rather be alone and frazzled I think?

Is this a common feeling, and does it go?

Oops sorry MizZan. Bit of a highjack.
I'll lurk quietly.

We briefly had an au pair for 6 months, but I also found I could not share home with anyone. An au apir is often very young. Mine was only 19. She was not used to children nor housework. She was here to learn better English and party. that's what I expectd and I did not have high expectations at all. I think a nanny is different. She should be more of a professional, whilst an au pair is just a girl who's there to help out. Most of the time she comes straight from mum&dad and is used to being the child in the household......

moondog - I started to feel that.

Which is why after my third au-pair who was very similar to mizzan's, so I got rid of him pretty quickly, I re-thought about whether I needed an au-pair. My polite way of getting rid of him was to say that I'd been offered four sessions at nursery instead of two, and I had to take them, otherwise I wouldn't get the two I wanted, so I would no longer need an au-pair.

However, when I thought about it, I realised that DD being her sociable nearly 3 year old self, was in fact, ready to go to nursery for the six sessions I needed her to (so that I could work) and so it became very nearly the truth! I was a bit scared about how to manage everything by myself without an au-pair, but in fact having had three of them in 2 years had taught me how to be much more organised and focussed about running a home (because I'd had to tell them what and how to do things) and I wasn't really any more frazzled than I'd been before.

Sorry for the hijack, Mizzan

MizZan, it doesn't sound too bad tbh. I find that if I am around my children will constantly try to engage me, rather than my aupair and she really does do lovely things with them.
Also, lots of families don't want the aupair to have meals with them, so she may not be used to being asked to join her host family for dinner.
I think often people expect aupairs to be the same as a nanny but cheaper: from my experience I would say that is simply not the case. They are usually youngsters looking to learn English & live abroad. They have no childcare qualifications and often limited experience with children.
I don't expect an aupair to cook, if they do it is a bonus. I expect them to be able to warm food I have already prepared or heat pre-packaged food (fishfingers etc).
Also, in the early days it is not unreasonable to have to spell everything out with a timesheet of exactly when you want things done.
Why not try leaving your son with her for short periods of time: half an hour to start with and see how it goes?

Wow, I did not expect so many responses so late at night - thank you all. glad I'm not the only one up thinking about these important issues . From what a lot of you are saying it does sound like perhaps my expectations were a bit high, but also like she might not be the right person for the job (and it is a job, not a paid vacation, at least not in our household).

Point taken about the need to provide a detailed schedule, Bugsy, but we haven't been able to do this because our own schedule has been shifting around so much - and also because next week will be her first with no intensive English course, so she'll in theory be around more. I will try to do so for this week and see how it goes.

But I don't want to waste too much time if I'm just beating my head against the wall with someone who's really never going to be that helpful. TBH if she can't show any initiative, can't cook at all (and we're not talking Cordon Bleu here), refuses to spend any time at all with the family, and can't look after my son for more than 20 minutes without him getting bored and coming to find me (this has not been a big problem in the past even with our most inexperienced nanny) - then I'm not sure what the point of having her around is. I'm not so altruistic that I want to have someone living in my house for 6 months to a year just so she can explore England with her friends and study English, and pay her for the privilege.

Maybe we just need to go back to nannies? Unaffordable, but at least more effective? But I want to give this girl a fair chance. She is 24, so not a teenager, and well used to living away from home - and was also an au pair for a year in France, so I thought we'd be ok on reaching an understanding of what responsibilities are without having every last thing spelled out - and also that there would be some interest in developing a relationship with our family. Apparently not. We certainly don't expect (or want) her to eat dinner with us every night, but gee - maybe breakfast? Maybe at least coming in to say good morning before she shoots out the door to meet her pals? My son has already gone from being completely enthralled by her (day 1) to having completely lost interest in her - which is not at all how I wanted it to be...

Hi, we are deliberating on the same issue - trying to find the right solution considering hours, budget, DS's needs, our sanity... I am sure other Mumsnetters will come back with definitions as to what an au pair is and what they should/should not do, but I don't think you should get too hung up on the title. Some au pairs are nothing but dippy teenagers who cannot do housework/cook/look after children on their own, who are here to party. Some are fantastic Mary Poppins -types and after a bit of experience under their belt, probably could sign up with any nanny agency and be employed as a bona fide nanny.

My current au pair is somewhere in between but more the latter, she is only 21 but is amazing with my 18-month old son. However, she cannot cook either and has little initiative in terms of coming up with activities, but I think that's to be expected - I cook my son's meals for him the day before and plan their day for them (playground/music class etc). However, I am easily pleased after two utterly useless cases that each lasted 4 weeks...

Some families only require someone to keep the children company and pick them up from school and do light housework, but like you MizZan, in my household it is a full time job and I worked with my agency to find the right person. However, I found that most girls say whatever they think you want to hear in the interviews to get the job so it really is pot luck who you end up with! When your au pair is not working out it is a very stressful experience, especially as you have to share your house with this person. I found that a lot is to do with personality rather than skills, and that you can tell pretty quickly whether it's going to work out or not. Trust your instinct, that's my advise! Hope it works out. xx

Mizzan,

Your au pair sounds a lot like my first one. She couldn't speak English, and didn't feel confident interacting with the children as a result. She socialised with other Polish girls, and never really improved in her English in the five months she was with us. She didn't spend any time with us either - she disappeared up to her room the minute she saw the car draw up. The crazy thing is, that if she had listened to the children read (they were in Y1 and Y3) at the time, she could have picked up an amazing amount of vocabulary.

She basically just did housework and walked the girls to and from school - not much fun there!

The au pairs we have had since have all been great with the children - sitting on the floor playing games with them etc. The first au pair was 26 and the others ranged from 17 - 20, and we have found that we really like the younger girls.

My gut feel is that your au pair isn't really suited to being an au pair. There are three things an au pair has to like - housework, children and learning English - your au pair doesn't seem to like any of these (just like my first one). If I were in that situation again, I'd let her go and replace her with another au pair.

Agree with others - get rid now, before the baby arrives and find someone with GOOD english, who can communicate with your son and wants to work with children.

Make sure you have a clearly laid down list of responsabilities (i.e. ironing, dusting, making ds lunch and so on) and only take on someone who can demonstrate they can do this. This means at least one day's trial - so you get to see if they can walk the walk after talking the talk!

As Calugila said - lots of girls become au-pairs to travel/learn language. Many have no interest in children/helping around the house, but will do the minimum - but only if they have to.

Mizzan
I have extensive au pair experience, have 2 of them at a time, and think you haven't got it all that bad. In my opinion all you need to do is "isntruct, instruct, instruct" to the nth detail. Now you may think this defeats the purpose but believe me in 2-3 weeks things get a lot better if you communicate with her at her level and "intruct". They feel most comfortable when they know precisely what to do. Write things down in detail so they have a chance to read them because many are better at understanding what they read then what they hear. Make daily schedule plans, list of things to do everyday, how to use the washing machine and at what setting etc. It will take some time but then, if you have a bit of luck, a normal au pair should be able to do everything of this sort. As for the engagement with your son they will be shy in terms of disciplining, so set boundries: ie what they can do when x y z happens. Also ask them to play with your son in their own language, my 2.5 year old daughter loves Slovak songs and games. (we've always had slovak au pairs) The au pair will feel much comfortable and your son will get to experience a different language and culture through these songs and games. He can even learn a few words, or learn to count in that language which is always good fun. My daughter can now speak 3 languages, English, Turkish (i am Turkish) and Slovak abd she is doing well... I am on mat leave with a 8 month old...

I wish I could consistenlty spell the word "instruct" correctly seen as I am using it so much! )

thanks again to all for the insights...still working on things here, still not sure what to do. for those who said just "get rid", part of our issue is that we've really been through the wringer with finding childcare and I am just not up for starting the search all over again, unless things get really desperate.

here's the update: have provided AP with a super-detailed schedule as suggested, instructions for washer/dryer, specifics on what DS should be eating for breakfast, lunch and snacks, shown her bus routes and how to get to/from school for pick-up.

result: we are making slow progress in that at least some things are getting done around the house (though still only when specifically asked for, and even something as basic as wiping down a countertop covered with porridge has to be requested), and my son managed to spend a few hours with her yesterday without coming in to find me, so that was good. She also managed to get to school to pick him up, by herself, for the first time.

On the bad side, we are still having major communication problems and she clearly is not able to deal with DS at all if he won't do what he's told (e.g., breakfast she made him went completely uneaten today since "he didn't feel like eating" and she just threw it out without asking, so I had to stuff nutrigrain bars into him on the way to school so he wouldn't have a meltdown at 10 AM).

also, more worryingly, she told me several times he wore his bike helmet when he was out learning to ride his bike with her (I had previously told her this was very important and told her where to find the helmet), but when I later asked him if he had worn it, he said no, and when I went to find it, it was all still neatly wrapped up in packaging and clearly had not been worn. ???? We've had several other instances that have worried me, for example a friend of hers came round on the sole occasion we have asked her to look after DS without me or DH being at home (this was for all of 4 hours), and not only did she not ask, she didn't even tell us, and I only found out when DS told me later. I

So my conclusions so far are:

• she's a nice person but I really have to limit my expectations of what she can do if we keep her on
• she would probably be ok doing school drop offs and pick ups, and preparing some meals and housecleaning. perhaps the odd hour of childcare here and there.
• I am far from feeling comfortable that she could be left alone in the house with DS and keep him safe/healthy. So for the moment DH or I have to be around when she's looking after him, which definitely was not the idea. No hope of her being able to take him out places, other than the park across the street.
• there is no way I could ever leave her with baby-to-be, I feel that if anything went wrong she'd have no idea how to cope, and I'd probably never even hear about it (or not until it's way too late...).

We are talking to someone about a part-time nanny instead (or possibly in addition to AP if she can't work that many hours), though not sure if that will come through or not. I never understood before why someone might need an au pair and a nanny both at the same time - I guess now I do.

MizZan, I think you are making good progress. It is fantastic that she occupied your son for a few hours when you were in the house. There is no way, my children would remain occupied by anyone for that long if I was in the house - so I think that shows she must be doing something good.
It has probably come as a shock to you quite how much direction some aupairs need.
Obviously, the helmut thing is important. Is it possible that she would have wrapped it up again after they had been out? I think you need to say that your ds must not ride the bicycle without his helmut & that you will be very angry and upset if he doesn't wear it.
As for eating meals, your aupair is going to want to keep your little boy happy. If he starts grizling and making a fuss that your son is not eating his meal, she knows you will come to see what is the problem. Therefore, it is easier for her, just to leave it.
As for baby to be, you are not supposed to leave aupairs in sole charge of children under 3 years old - as far as I know (could be wrong but that was my understanding).
I think you are doing well and that your aupair sounds fairly average. You may find a better one but you could also end up with much worse.

sorry, am so illiterate - hope most of it made sense.

Mizzan - be careful - she sounds as if she is a bit sneaky. Telling you he did have his helmet on when he did not and inviting a friend round without permission is really not on when you have given strict instructions otherwise.

Sorry, but my prediction is that she will get worse, not better. Afterall, she should be on her best behaviour now, when she is new. What will she be like when she feels comfortable............

Hi again
What nationality is she? Can you get someone speaking her language act as a translater to have a good talk with her?
You said her English is poor- they sometimes don't understand things (even though they nod and confirm they understand they just don't!) or how important they are so make sure they understand things like helmets- make her repeat to you (kindly of course) what you have asked her to do when you tell her important things.
Her friend looking after your child- it is a no no of course- she needs to be told very clearly... all about the ground rules and house rules...
As time passes it gets better- you tell her a couple of times and next time there is porridge on the counter she will clean it. If she doesn't there is something wrong with her. Tell her even the simplest things she should do and if she is a normal person she will do them without being told after a while.. It is frustrating to begin with but it is so reasonable to have an au pair, I think it is very much worth the hassle for a few weeks..
If it is getting worse- ie if you increasingly do not trust her judgement as a person - then you can maybe think about alternatives...
good luck-

Hi

I agree with goldenoldie. The helmet 'miscommunicaion' (ahem) is just not on. If she doesn't have a basic idea about child safety and the responsibility involved [aka bloody common sense], then you are going to have a hard job drilling that into her without resentment on one or both sides. I know you have had problems finding childcare, but I think your current au pair will cause you nothing but stress. Already you are in a situation where you need to check what she's told you with your young son - not great when she is supposed to be the one in charge who you trust! I'm glad you're looking into alternative solutions. Good luck!

Message withdrawn

Is her name Helga? just kidding, in a wry sort of way. Some of these problems, like not eating as well as he would for you, are typical of any sort of childcare. If you want to work at home you need to lock them out of the room and work quietly to help them forget you are there, as well as have a talented minder who plays with them and preferably takes them out a lot.

BUT Take her to task about the helmet-if he did not wear it she must go ASAP. Unless she returned it to the packaging perfectly (unlikely for someone who has to be told to wipe a counter), she either is a liar, or her English is so bad that she is a danger to your family. The same applies about the friend, unless you did not make it clear that this was not allowed.
Take a deep breath and start looking for the replacement NOW, or decide that you have to stump up for an agency. Keep her in the dark until you have found someone who seems clearly better, then let her go, using an excuse to ease the departure so she doesn't take revenge or keep hassling you. Look at this as an opportunity while you are on ML to get one of the 10% of good people around, caring for your son.

Keep hold of all the schedules and rules you have written down and hire the next one with those on the table, to be signed as part of a contract.

good luck you will need it.

and here is a message from my dd1 age 5 and one month, who has put up with 5 different non english-speaking carers (nannies and au pairs) since the age of 2; "I don't like XXX (the latest one) because she speaks a different language - I don't know what she is saying and she doesn't understand me. The others were nice but still didn't understand me-you are always kind and know how to talk with me." The one English speaker I sacked as she was wierd.

Mizzan, I think you're desperately talking yourself into keeping her and making the best of a bad situation because you just so dread beginning the search again.

But honestly, I really don't think this sounds like it's going to work out. What comes across, is that this girl is not trying - there are communication difficulties, there are misunderstandings, but with time, patience, effort and tolerance, they can all be solved. But the au-pair has to make the effort too, and she just sounds like she either doesn't want to, or is not confident enough to. And I think in your situation, I'd be asking myself if a foreign au-pair in her first time job is the best option - you don't have the time or the energy needed to direct someone who sounds as difficult as her. You might be better off going on one of the sites where you'll get au-pairs who have done it before and know the ropes more.

I've done the directing thing a lot (2 of my au-pairs needed an awful lot of guiding) but I wasn't pregnant or with a new baby at the time, and I was working part time at home and plus, they wanted it to work and were very obviously trying hard themselves. Do you get the feeling that she is genuinely making an effort? Because if not, I'd really get rid of her - I know it will mean extra work to get someone else now, but you might save yourself an awful lot of time, frustration and resentment in the long run.

An au-pair who is good, is absolutely wonderful. But one who is bad, can be a nightmare. And you really don't need a nightmare in the next few months!

I have absolutely no experience with au pairs but worked for many years as a nanny. I was under the impression that au pairs were not to be left in sole charge of children. It sounds to me from this thread that you were hoping for the au pair to be an inexpensive live-in nanny, and from the replies, that this is what most people expect. As I say, I am ignorant about this, but I feel this is a mistake. I think an au pair is there to do light housework and the odd evening's babysitting. If she pitches in to help with meals and play with the kids then this is a bonus. I think you have maybe made the mistake of expecting an average young woman to have the housekeeping and childcare skills of a nanny. Sorry it hasn't worked out for you, but I feel this may not be the au pair's fault. I hope it is next time lucky for all concerned.

thanks again for all the helpful thoughts, everyone. majorstress, I've been following your childcare woes over the past few months and you have my total sympathy - we too have had a nightmare finding/keeping part-time childcare, though I don't think our individual nannies/au pairs have been anywhere near as trying as yours! And no, her name is not Helga .

we have found someone who seems great to be a part-time nanny 2 mornings a week. She can do more time if we need her to, so I am going to give her a trial tomorrow (au pair is away for a 4-day weekend). Am still 100% sure we could not leave au pair to look after baby, ever (I know I know, you're not supposed to do this, but I was hoping for a couple hours a week so I could at least nap or whatever). This nanny has lots of baby experience as well as experience with preschoolers. So we have our "fallback" sorted out, if need be, though it is a very expensive one (and won't be helping with housework...).

Au pair did do extra ironing without even being asked, today (I was in office, husband working from home so I got the report from him). And, apparently, my son spent the morning with her fairly cheerfully, and didn't bug my husband at all. So I think they are getting on better, though I still have the same concerns re communication and not feeling comfortable leaving her home alone with him, at this point.

I still am not sure about the bike helmet thing. I literally led her by the hand today, put the helmet in it, and said as clearly as possible that DS was NEVER to ride bike without it. Like many of you I would have thought this a matter of common sense, but then, I am not Slovak (well I am, partly, but not enough I guess!). For the moment I am going to give her the benefit of the doubt and assume her English is so poor that she didn't understand what I was saying and was just doing the nod-and-smile thing, which she does a lot. Obviously that is not great, but best to know, and to limit the scope for things going wrong, as much as possible.

Despite all the good advice on here to the contrary, I think we need to give it another week or 2 before deciding for sure whether we will keep her on. She seems to be improving slowly and we could really use the help, even if it's mainly housework and school runs and even if it ends up only being for a few months (no relatives around to pitch in and I'm exhausted now and will be even more so when baby arrives).

Even if we do keep her on, we'll hopefully still have this part-timer nanny a couple of mornings a week who can look after baby and/or take DS to activities outside the house, without any need for supervision. I am able to be around home more next week and will have less work, and can keep a closer eye on how things are going with AP. I suspect that if we keep her to a strict schedule and routine with DS, that will be the way to manage things. If they seem to be improving, great; if not, at least we have an alternative in hand.

Wish us luck!

frannyf, au pairs are meant to work 25 hours a week, and we certainly don't have 25 hours a week of housework for her to do! childcare is definitely part of the deal in almost all cases. they are not meant to have sole charge of under-3s (my DS is nearly 4), though many do.

as noted, maybe I am trying too hard to talk myself into this...we'll see how I feel tomorrow after supernanny comes in for her trial!