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Paid childcare

Discuss everything related to paid childcare here, including childminders, nannies, nurseries and au pairs.

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Original poster

Do you think I should reconsider this nanny - phone calls and smoking

33 replies

oranges · 02/12/2010 13:41

I;m going back to work next year, and ds;s old nursery nurse asked if she could be our nanny. SHe's babysat for us before and I like her - she seems cheerful and competent. But this week, I asked her to do childcare for a day. My MIL popped in and said she found the backdoor open, and the baby seemed cold. I asked the nanny later, who said she'd opened the back door, to have a cigarette. I didn't know she smoked and feel a bit uncomfortable at her holding baby outside while having a cigarette. I don't think the baby was napping at the time, and even if she was, dh has asthma and I really don;t want smokers in the house.Is it normal for nannies to smoke, even outside their charges house?

I also found she's made about five phone calls to mobiles.
We haven't signed a contract yet and I'm a bit alarmed that she did all that on what was effectively the first time she'd worked for us properly. But then again, they are issues that can be dealt with. She is a nice girl. WWYD?

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rainbowinthesky · 02/12/2010 13:43

Personally I wouldnt mainly because your baby is going to smell of fags, not nice.

fedupwithdeployment · 02/12/2010 13:47

I wouldn't. The smoking would be a huge deal for me. And re the phone calls - why is she making calls when she was looking after your baby? What about the length/cost? did she mention that she had to make calls? I would have trust issues.

Original poster

oranges · 02/12/2010 13:47

to be fair the baby didnt smell of fags and i can usually detect smoke smells. but i'm slightly concerned at lack of prifessionalism on day1

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Original poster

oranges · 02/12/2010 13:49

She didnt mention the calls. I only realised because one of her friends called in the evening (waking up the baby grr) saying she had a missed call from my number and I twigged. She said she had to call about some admin, which would be fine, but that would be one call, to a landline, and I've since looked at my phone and realised there are calls to five different mobiles. Oh dear, I'm answering my own question

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Strix · 02/12/2010 13:58

Smoking is forbidden in my contract. It is not negotiable. I wouldn't consider it gross misconduct, but it would instigate some form of disciplinary action.

There is no smoking whilst she is on duty -- no mater where they are. And there is no smoking in my house or on my property even if she is not on duty. It is not negotiable.

Original poster

oranges · 02/12/2010 14:01

I don't think she realised how bad it seemed to me, and my MIL, that she airily said the door was open as she was having a cigarette. In the freezing weather too, and the baby seemed cold. That lack of awareness bothers me too. she's very young and has been a nursery nurse so is good with children but may not not be mature enough yet to work on her own.

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Ebb · 02/12/2010 14:19

I would be the same as Strix and say absolutely no smoking on duty at any time ( including outside at the park etc where she might think it's ok as it's outdoors. ) and put it in your contract. I would definately be concerned that she seemed to think this was ok.

If you decide to keep her then I think you need to have a very detailed contract and set out your expectations in black and white. If she is very young she may need 'micro managing' but do you think she's worth it?

For what it's worth, I went from working in a nursery to a 24/5 nanny job with a very young baby and would like to think I was totally proffessional and knew what was appropriate and was not. I was 23 by then though.

orangina · 02/12/2010 14:38

I think you have answered your own question....

frakkinup · 02/12/2010 14:55

Smoking on duty is gross misconduct in my contract. As a professional childcarer she should know better and if she doesn't know better about that then IMO she's not fit to be left in sole charge yet.

You've answered your own question and you know it.

Laquitar · 02/12/2010 15:01

The phone calls wouldn't bother me.

Smoking would. And yesterday was freezing.

You can ask her not to smoke when on duty but if the days are long then i would worry about her coping.

ItalianLady · 02/12/2010 15:06

The phone calls are not a huge issue in that you can say to her she is not to use your hone to ring her mates but the smoking would be a deal breaker for me 100%.

Blondeshavemorefun · 02/12/2010 15:50

in nannys defense sounds like you didnt ask if she smoked, so she wasnt being deceitful nor did she think she was doing anything wrong- she prob smokes on breaks at nursery

so you either need to have in contract that she NEVER smokes during the hours you employ her or that you employ someone else who doesnt smoke

again phone calls,it happens but calling several mobiles on 1st day seems a bit much

it is very different working in a nursery with other adults to be a sole charge nanny on your own

Original poster

oranges · 02/12/2010 16:45

I know - I didn't ask if she smokes. TO be fair, we haven't had a proper discussion about the job yet as I haven't formally offered it to her and its still some months away. Last week was a one off.
I didn't think I minded her making phone calls either but I was annoyed to be called back on it at night, and I think five calls is a bit much, though I don't know how long they were.

I think her behaviour was made more stark when the following day, as she couldn't help, we got an older nanny who had worked as a nanny before, and her professionalism was outstanding.

But what do I do now? I do like her. Do I just say I'm not hiring her after all, or sit her down and have a proper talk about all this?

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euracantha · 02/12/2010 16:50

The older nanny is not available?

Original poster

oranges · 02/12/2010 16:54

She may be - she hasn't decided whether she wants to carry on nannying next year or go travelling for a while.

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nannynick · 02/12/2010 17:06

Do I just say I'm not hiring her after all

That implies that you have sort of already offered her the job. So, I would say that you need to give her some feedback with regard to how the day went... beginning positive, then the negative things, then trying to end on a positive.

Smoking is incompatible with childcare, she needs to understand that. Nursery I suspect has strict rules about smoking whilst at work. Nannying is a bigger problem because there is no break during the day... she has to be able to go the entire day without smoking. Perfect opportunity for her to try to quit... if she want's to be a nanny she needs to be able to go the full working day without smoking.

may not not be mature enough yet to work on her own.
Maturity and age are different things, someone young can be mature... while someone old can be immature. So it's not her young age that is the problem but it's her actions, such as letting your baby get cold.

Use her as a babysitter, useful to have someone to call on for that... plus there may be a time in the future when you would like to try her again for daytime care. However, sounds as though currently it's not going to work well... she needs to realise the job is different to being at nursery, far more responsibility, no breaks, very lonely.

Blondeshavemorefun · 02/12/2010 17:51

I think you need to have a chat either for your benefit or for future familys

Tbh you sound as if you have doubts esp when comparing to an older nanny but chat and see what happens

If she won't quit smoking then you have to devise whether you trust her if she says that she won't smoke during the day

Original poster

oranges · 02/12/2010 18:02

Thank you for all your advice. Nanny nick, you are right about it being lonely. I don't know if she's thought about that.
SHe's 22, and has always been reliable till now - turning up on time, knowing how to feed the children and settle them. I'm a bit shocked at the smoking. It's good to know I'm justified in not liking it.

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leeloo1 · 03/12/2010 18:43

Its probably just the difference between a nursery nurse and a professional nanny. At the nurseries near us you often see them hanging out smoking outside when (I presume) they're on breaks. Perhaps she just hasn't realised she shouldn't be doing this.

That said, if you need to explain to her 'please don't use my phone to make personal calls' (why didn't she use her mobile?) and 'please don't smoke when holding my baby' then it makes you wonder what other common sense things you'd have to explain to her...

vanitypear · 04/12/2010 20:31

THis would be a massive issue for me. I would not want someone smoking and then caring for my baby. I don't like the sound of the calls either - on her trial day.

I remember when I first confronted hiring a nanny to return to work - it was really daunting. I was so desperate to find someone I vaguely knew or who was recommended. Are you sure you're not overlooking some pretty bad faults and a general incapability of being a sole charge carer because you know her and are worried it might be tricky finding anyone else? I have a great nanny now, through a local agency - am so glad I really looked for who might be out there instead of just leaping at the first person. Might not apply to you but really think about it. Good luck.

mamadoc · 06/12/2010 14:09

Smoking is just such a massive no no for me.
When she holds your baby they will be breathing in smoke off her clothes and her breath.
When she has a fag break she will not be concentrating on looking after your baby.
It is a bad example to the child as they grow up.
I am actually quite surprised that nursery workers are allowed to smoke on breaks. I have always used CMs and it is one of my make or break questions.

Original poster

oranges · 06/12/2010 18:21

vanity pear you are absolutely right that an agency seems daunting. Not sure why. Ive asked the other nanny who helped out if she can suggest anyone else too. She doesn't want the job herself as she's changing direction in her career.

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QuintessentialShadows · 06/12/2010 18:25

She either left the baby unsupervised while she popped out for a fag, or she brought the baby out smoking while holding your baby, or she and baby was in kitchen and she smoked indoors with the door open. Neither is good.

ChippingIn · 06/12/2010 18:35

I wouldn't employ her.

The smoking would be a deal breaker and I wouldn't even give her the opportunity to quit or not smoke on duty, it's not easy to 'police' and just too much hassle.

I also wouldn't employ a nursery nurse unless I knew her out of 'the setting'. It is just such a different way of working and not many of them make the transition very well.

I do agree though, that she hasn't done anything wrong yet as you haven't talked about this.

Will you see her in passing? I would just say 'We have started advertising the nanny job if you would like to apply'. Then you don't have to tell her she can't have the job and you haven't ignored her request either. I know it's a little bit wimpish, but it seems like the easiest option to me.

ChippingIn · 06/12/2010 18:35

The phone wouldn't worry me if she was my permanent nanny, but I think it's pretty crap of someone who is only there for one day to do that.

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