Is £22,000 gross a reasonable nanny for London?

[staranise]

I'm getting very confused as to what is a credible wage. Not helped by the fact that it seems whatever I offer, I'll be working at a loss!

We have three children but two are at school, youngest is 2 and pretty easy. No cleaning/household duties, the occasional cooking for the children. It would be full-time, 40 hours a week, paid holiday, plus NI/tax of course, I'm coordinate holiday with gps so the nanny would rarely have all three in the school hols.

The thing is, i know that gives a quite low hourly rate of £8.20 but is that compensated by the fact that it's full-time, only one school run (one would be covered by me or DH) etc?

Seems too low to me.

I do a friend's nanny payroll and her FT London nanny earns more than that for two children (one at school and the other 2).

If nobody else comes back to you I can go and check her gross salary. I think the nanny gets nearly £2k in hand per month.

live in or live out?

It really depends on how old/experienced she or he is? Also what part of London are you in?
I am a sole charge nanny in SW6, working 46 hours a week and I'm on £31k, plus use of car. I have 17 years experience though.

For £22k you'd probably be looking at someone younger, with less experience. Not to say you couldn't find a gem - there are some out there! £22k is just not an awful lot to live on in London, assuming she or he would have their own bills to pay, (I'm assuming here the position is live-out?)

Good luck with your search, hope you find someone lovely.

You say full time 40hrs a week - is that 8hrs a day or 4 days of 10hrs

£22k is low for 4/5days but sure you can find a younger/less exp nanny for that

That's the problem really you can offer the best job in the world with the nicest kids and parents but the nanny still needs a living wage. Unless you find a young nanny living with parents? 40 hours isn't much though so the nanny could supplement with babysitting in the evenings.

I'd love to pay more, it's just I'd be working at a loss - I don't mind breaking even but don't really want to work at a loss even before I count the cost of commuting etc.

I'm near SW6 - I could offer use of car I guess, most nannies round here don't use one (everything is very local). I find it so depressing that I can't afford to work - I'd happily pay a good nanny £30k+ but that's not much less than what I earn and I have to pay my tax and then hers etc etc . The sums just don't add up.

It would probably be 9-5 five days a week - I guess a nanny would prefer four longer days? She might then pick up work on the other day to give a better living wage?

I think you're right on the last point. Nannies working day's are usually 10-12 hours long. If she worked a 4 day week she can work an extra day elsewhere to top up her wage.

People often qoute full-time London nannies as earning 30k+, but forget that this is not for a 40 hour week - it is often for a 55-60 hour week.

Try looking for a nanny with a child of her own - you may get lucky wiht a nanny share, but with 3 children already, I think that's going to be hard to find.

A nanny with a child of her own will expect to earn less, if she's bringing her child to work with her.

I would also say it depends on the nanny. It would be possible for someone in their first job but it's whether you're happy with that. Remember that if you offer a car you need to add the cost of insurance, which can be steep for a younger nanny, a kitty for playgroups/misc expenses, food for nanny during the working day and the various other costs...

Yes it is possible, if you are okay with a nanny who has less experience. Nursery assistants generally earn less than this in London.

I don't think it's that low. I'm in zone 3 London and paid my previous, 40-hour, 4 days a week nanny £25000 gross. She had 7 years experience. I've been recruiting again recently and have come across plenty of people with 1-2 years experience who would presumably be happy with £22K.

I found that those who have English as a first language tend to want more, so you might want to think about what level of English you want.

Could you not use a nursery or cm and afterschool clubs? Would be loads cheaper than a nanny. Especially as you only need care until 5pm.

It is very low for London and over 5 days is not very attractive, 4 days 10 hrs per day would be more attractive.
I don't know why you mention 'paid holidays', it is not a gift everybody has paid holidays. You will need to throw in something else to make it attractive.

I think it is an extremely high wage but I dont live in London. If you did that job here (I live on south coast) you would get about 13k a year.

Average for London is around 23k net so about 34k gross. you will find cheaper but will need to work out what you want to compromise on (language, experience, quals, ability to drive, etc)

I mentioned paid holidays because the nanny would get way above the usual 5.6 weeks as I get a fair amount of help from gps (but they live far away so can do weeks at a time but not a regular dpw).

I worked out that figure based on what I earn plus nannies I know get £8-10 cash in hand - this would be more like £8.50 an hour but legal etc. Paying a kitty/activites/food not a problem.

Difficult to use CMs as my school-age children have activities after school I'd be reluctant to stop, school does no after-school club. Nursery would be much cheaper but doesn't help my older DDs.

I think I migth jsut have to be prepared to work at a loss til DC3 turns 3 (in a year's time). How does anyone who is not a doctor/lawyer etc afford to work in London?!

£34k does seem like a lot, no? For a 40-hour week? I earn just below that and without the nanny perks of car/meals/paid overtime etc. Not to say that nannies don't work hard but I work in publishing, where you can have 15 years' experience/degree/lots of CPD etc and still struggle to earn £30k. No wonder there are so many SAHMs in London!

£34k gross is more likely to be for a 50-60 hour week, coming in at just under £10net/hour which is around the live out going rate for a nanny with 5+ years experience, high level of English/mother tongue, probably qualified and a driver. As squiffy said if you want to go below that you have to work out what you compromise on.

I think DH's work has the childcare vouchers which would help - are many nannies registered? I'd be happy to pay for registration if it was straightforward.

I've never employed a FT nanny in the UK before so it's all new to me (and a bit of a shock TBH) - many thanks for your help with this.

There are increasing numbers of registered nannies and most nannies now are in a position to become registered regarding qualifications, first aid and insurance. Then it's just a case of you stumping up the £100 odd and waiting forever for the CRB check

You're doing well to research it properly before going ahead with it. As a nanny pet hates of mine are:

a) we didn't realise how much it would cost, we can't afford it
b) we didn't realise we had to employ you with a contract/operate payroll/give you paid holidays (delete as appropriate)
c) X's nanny down the road gets £x/week (when x's nanny has less experience/is less qualified/does fewer hours - delete as a appropriate).

I could go on but I won't. Suffice to say you're off to a good start by realising that you have a budget and working out what you can realistically get for it.

An inexperienced nanny isn't a bad thing - we all started somewhere - and they're cheaper. They may well have a childcare qualification which is 2 years of FT study and placements, equipping them with the knowledge they need to do the job as long as you're prepared to handhold them. Or they might have worked in a nursery so have good practical experience, possibly a qualification, and have held a job before but then they might be fab on the activities front and less able to do cleaning/cooking (which isn't so much of an issue anyway). Compromising doesn't mean you can't get what you want, it just might not be packaged in the way you expect.

I'm not so very worried about experience as they won't be dealing with a baby - as long as they are calm & competent. I'd prefer a Spanish speaker (I speak it), don't need a driver so can compromise on English/car.

My main concern is that I can't offer a living wage - I hate cheap childcare, think it's a false economy. I don't want to pay a really low salary and end up with a nanny who feels aggrieved/is looking for other work constantly. But I'd also like to go back to work without being annoyed that my nanny earns more than me (not that that is her fault of course)!

Hm well there you've picked an in-demand language. If you'd wanted Eastern European languages then you'd probably have been able to find someone more easily! There seem to be a few Spanish speakers on Gumtree though, depending on which part of London you're in.