Parents Would You Be Annoyed? Nannies..have you been in this situation?

[SuperNanny20]

I started my job in July and said I would stay a year..
They have had a few nannies before and really wanted someone to stay long term.

I just feel really unhappy there..I posted before regarding 4 yr old DC not sleeping..well nothing has changed still waking 3 or 4 times a night since July..I feel very sleep deprived..spoke to MB and she says " thats part of the bargin, when you live in".

Also DC grandma comes from 7.30am to 2pm..Ive said to mum maybe she could come later..as its a little to early..and maybe she could take 1yr DC while i do nursery duties..she said she would rather i went out with granny even though she is very capable.

Also, I have told her more than 5 times how the cleaners are rude and do not do a good clean..she hasnt listened when previous nannies also told her..

I just feel she doesnt listen unless she wants to listen but when im working 70 hours a week its grating on me, to the point where i just cant take it anymore as there are things that are unchangeable for example child sleeping..I ask her if she hears and she says " no, we dont hear a thing" .. I know i made a rod for my own back going into DC but it takes me 0.20 seconds to get child to settle...where it takes her 2 hours..

Also i cant choose any holiday days..at the time i didnt think of it too much but now its also a problem.

Also..finding it hard adapting to a new area..

So anyway the big question..what should i say in my notice letter and would you be annoyed..if nanny said she would stay a year? And she left 9months later (12 week notice period)

Sorry if its confusing im pretty confused myself..

Thanks for advice guys!

Something along the lines of " Over the weekend ive had time to think and I feel its best i give you my notice. I have given 4 months to see if X sleep pattern would settle down..and it hasnt. I am constantly very tired and I do not want it to effect my performance.? Ahh dear. Not good at this.

No no no. You make it sound like you can't hack it.

More like "Over the weekend I have had time to think and I feel it is best I hand in my notice. I am required to give 8 weeks, so my last day will be [date].

I have very much enjoyed spending time with x and Y, who are wonderful children. However, I feel that we are incompatible on a number of levels in relation to this role and your expectations of it."

Stole the last phrase from further up! If she asks, you can then explain. I would sit down and prepare a few objective bullet points: 1. Length of working hours: it is not reasonable to expect someone to be up twice or more in the night and still working a full day. This is not normal for a live in position with a four year old. etc etc. Then, if she does speak to you, you have it all in your head.

hand your notice in and leave and wear earplugs till you do

as i said this before, but you have made a rod for your own back by going into the children at night time and tbh the mum prob feels a failure by you getting the child to sleep in a few mins while they cant

why does granny come every day?

Ribena - to clarify - op does not have to and is not expected to get up in the night. She chooses to do so as she can settle the child much quicker than the parents can (when they hear )

Supernanny - I remember your first thread about these issues. You've given it a good shot - hand in your notice and don't feel any guilt at all.

I have to saythat we all love the children we look after and most of us do the best we can for them but it is almost always in my very long experience as a nanny the parents fault when we decide to leave, these people are walking all over you they should have perhaps asked you to do two waking nights which they would hopefully pay you for and then the mother or father should get up for the others,I ve lived in and the parents always get up to the children unless they specifically ask you to do a night shift perhaps if they have been to a party.Good luck in the job hunting.I have found most employers to be considerate and thoughtful of any problems we have I can see why this family can t keep a nanny for long.

Leave. Honestly its not worth it. You are not appreciated, you are so much better than this shite.

She doesn't come everyday just once a week but its enough to unsettle the routine.

Nbee- what would you say to mb?

I know I made a rod for my own back and she would prob say " we never asked you to".. Ahhh so hard!

She doesn't come everyday just once a week but its enough to unsettle the routine.

Nbee- what would you say to mb?

I know I made a rod for my own back and she would prob say " we never asked you to".. Ahhh so hard!

The point about the sleep is that you can say "I am disturbed twice a night every night by x crying, I am not prepared to live that any longer"

Having references are esp. important in childcare and with potentially bitter parents you are in vulnerable position.

Although you might want the parents to realise what they are doing wrong it is not to your advantage to bring lots of negative issues up, esp. in the heat of things; it could very well come out all wrong. Since she has trouble seeing things from your 'work' pov anyway you might be seen as being agressive, criticising her for the way she organises personal family life- it is enough that you are leaving.

As I think ribenaberry said it's good to put something positive about the children first, emphasiing that this is (should be) the most important aspect of the job for you.

If she says 'we don't ask you to get up' say you understood she thought this was normal for live-in jobs and obviously wants someone to go in (she doesn't stop you and has gone in herself); there are ways to hear if she wants to. Try not to get into all that though, as there seem to be other issues too. She may well try and persuade you to stay but ime things rarely change.

Sounds awful, they're taking the piss!

I disagree nbee. She does expect the nanny (this one and past) to get up, she's just been very passive aggressive about requiring it. "I don't hear anything." "You've got to expect that if you live in."

Whilst I agree about the reference point, if the OP has good references from previous jobs, I'd be inclined to write this one off as a bad job. If someone came to me and said "my last job didn't work out for x reason" and the reference was bad, I wouldn't be that worried. On the other hand, if the OP doesn't give reasons and gets a reference that says "she says she couldn't cope" then I think in many ways that's worse. I agree, it's really difficult though.

see what you mean ribenaberry. I was thinking about the effect of the 'stroppy' comment on views in current thread: 'which nanny would you go for?' but then that nanny hasn't tried to explain it; though moaning about ex-employers is never good either.

just a thought supernanny , have you and the parents tried to work out why a four year old is still waking and crying in the night . Would you stay in this job if you got a better nights sleep.

It sounds as though you are doing the "job"of a perfectionist super-mother, which is bad enough if you bring it upon yourself, but the key here is not having the authority to cut corners, save time strategically (e.g. the food) and rationalise your schedule (the granny)!

In an office environment, I would suspect constructive dismissal, only here the family would have to be nuts to want another nanny to go!

Their expectations need adjusting. I once read a brilliant book aimed at project managers, about "death march"projects (those which are massively (say 50%) under-resourced in time, staff or budget) and how to survive them. Unfortunately, the author admits that project managers have most (of any) leverage at the start, because they need to be persuaded to agree to take the project on, so need concessions.

However, there are things which can be done part-way through, like goal updates, and reducing/increasing the spec/budget/timescale/ of the project. The equivalent for you would be:

• working 70 hour week has to go (cite the Working Time Directive, upthread, per RibenaBerry). State that they must (don't use "need to", as it is weaker language than "must") start using a monitor, as getting up for them has increased your working hours (a) beyond what you are paid for and (b) to a point at which you feel tired. Furthermore, she has not been sympathetic to this, and has dismisssed it as "to be expected, living in", and this is wrong of her. In fact, the boundaries must be firmer for those who live in, or it makes a nonsense of the idea that this is a "job".

• Granny's schedule must be adjusted, ideally to cover you during the nursery run, but at least to later in the morning than that freakishly early start (what time does she get up to go there?). Granny may be a bit inconvenienced, but the parents should consider what is more important: the convenience of an adult on whom their children's confort and stress levels do not depend, or supporting the person who is managing their children, enabling that person to manage the morning schedule with a minimum rush and stress? Granny should be ashamed of herself, for adding to the problem (is she aware of this?)
• Cooking must (again, use "must" instead of "has/have to") be rationalised, either by allowing the introduction of some quicker fixes (e.g. mash with pilchards in tomato sauce, for omega-3, plus greens; I make a dal with store cupboard and freezer ingredients; use up leftover veg and ham and cheese to make pizzas at the end of the week, etc.) or else make food themselves (the parents). I haven't had a nanny, but am sure I have heard of parents doing some cooking because it's simply not the nanny's job to run the house as well as the children!
• They must stop jumping on you in ways which reveal that they think nothing of your judgement (cf. the food which was for you). If they think so little of you, why do they trust you with their children, and with their home?!

You said they were happy at your 3-month review, but what did you say at that point? Did you raise any of these matters?

Don't say this, but these parents are incompetent managers and pretty unconcerned parents, not to be working to ease the working conditions of their nanny, who will care better their children if they are happy, valued, able to feed back in an intelligent way about the children and the household, etc. It's notable that they ignore your, and other nannies' observations about the cleaners. These people really do not manage "staff" well, do they? No discrimination about levels of trust, no rewarding you for aligning your interests with theirs... No wonder they can't keep nannies and the cleaners are slacking off!

plup...: love what you've written. It's nice to see it laid out so clearly and ordered. But as you point out nanny is employee; no authority to demand many of the changes.

In reality most parents I know would not take this list well at all (would anyone actually think they themselves capable of being that mean and inconsiderate?). As a nanny either wanting to stay working comfortably within an intimate family environment or wanting a decent reference I would hold off on saying most/all of this in such a formal/listy way.

In nearly all my nanny jobs the aligning interests thing has tended to be my job and reward is the pay.

'these parents are incompetent managers'

many are. They get a nanny to make their life easier not so they have to work more to help nanny work better. They often don't have it in their minds that they even need to think about managment or that they might be neglecting basic rights and responsibilities. Just doesn't always occur to them (MN posters seeming to be the exception). It's a whole nother thing to do/think about when they felt they pay so much for a nanny to free up their time. Some use PAs so they don't have to deal with the 'management' and 'demands' of the staff.

The food thing to me just reveals how important it has become in their life as a control (possibly guilt) mechanism (that I would let them have) not really about how much they trust the nanny with the children's safety. I fear no mutual happiness could come from attempting to change that, only resentment and regret.

The most rational and consistent parenting efforts can often be full of contradictions, especially to nannies who see inside a lot of different families, but are not always usefully highlighted. If parents don't get the joky, softly, get the hint, i read that..., ime, diplomatic type of highlighting they don't want to hear it. Live with it or leave.

It seems to me that the problem lies in the incorrect job description that was given at the start of employment. There is nothing wrong with parents wanting food cooked from scratch for their kids (I do nothing less for mine), but it's a tiring and time consuming proposition and should certainly have been included in the original job description. They should have told you that they had a child who woke frequently and that they expected you to accompany the grandmother once a week. It might be helpful to say to suggest to them that they include these items in the job description when looking for their next nanny. As someone else mentioned, you really should have discussed these issues at the 3 month review.

But in addition, I have to say, you sound a little unsuited to nannying to me. Nothing you have described sounds particularly unusual for a household with two working parents and two young children. If you find this household so completely overwhelming that you can't stick to your original commitment of a year, I would think long and hard about what you want and choose your next position accordingly...maybe only one older child and a stay at home mom, might be more suited to your needs.

Just a short note but, for what it is worth, I don't agree with Sofia at all - on the basis of what you have written, you don't sounds unsuited to nannying at all but yours sounds like an extremely difficult job.
I am inclined to agree with others that you are probably past the point of no return here: you could try to negotiate an improvement as Plupervert outlined but I don't that you will succeed and you could end up simply annoying the family.
Will you have time off at Christmas - that could be a good time to get some rest and review the whole situation?
Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

1 child with a SAHM is infinitely more challenging than this job!

Honestly this has nothing to do with your suitability for nannying - it has to do with the specific circumstances interrupting your sleep, parents who don't listen to your suggestions re: schedule (it's not like you want to cut granny out, you want her to come over at a mutually convenient time) and an unwillingness to communicate.

I don't think there's anything about the job you're complaining about per se. It's what wasn't agreed that's biting....

A pity a nanny can't be seen as a project manager, rather than "just" an employee!

It's a shame that it's a job that requires one to use judgement, and yet here these parents sound as though they are restricting that!

Have you done anything yet, Supernanny20?

The fact that they consider 12 months to be long-term is a bit telling don'tcha think? When we recruited our nanny, we said we wanted someone long-term and made clear that we meant 3 to 4 years at least!

I'd have a look at why MB takes an hour to get her kids to sleep when you can do it in a minute - that's quite a problem. Do they feel disempowered as parents? Have they asked you how you manage it? Have you suggested a sleep therapy assistant/night routine training for the kids (really for the parents of course)?

What a 'mare! Fundamentally though, it's not a fixed term contract as there's a notice period, s you're more than entitled to give your notice. Theymight well be flabberghasted, so perhaps consider haing a talk where you emphasise how much you love their kids, BUT..... etc

Have you asked for a different room?? ;-)

This is depressing. Why can't we enlightened types hog all the nannies and make (potential) slave drivers work their way up to "massah" by slaving and realising how necessary it is to have some discretion, to get the work done better?

Supernanny is sleeping in her cornflakes

Whereas I agree with all the points made, to an extent. It all seems a bit final.

Supernanny, why don't you say to her you are so sleep deprived that you are considering leaving. Perhaps Granny would like to come and help you recuperate once a week until the sleep issue is resolved.

Why does the child wake, at 4 he should be sleeping well. Couldn't you together make a strategy to rid yourselves of this problem. There are lots of methods, its a case of working out which one works and sticking to it. I only say this because I have had 2 children of my own and have sleep trained them both and in fact gone to friends houses to support them through their training process. Is there a medical reason for his waking?

Or perhaps I'm not understanding the problem correctly; my understanding is you are tired (as expected) and you are finding the other parts of the job and the relationship with the mother difficult because you are tired. Should you find a way of sleeping well you would be happy to stay?