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Paid childcare

Discuss everything related to paid childcare here, including childminders, nannies, nurseries and au pairs.

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Original poster

Sackable offence?

26 replies

NorhamGardens · 07/11/2010 08:08

What would you do if you had an excellent nanny, had been with you for about 3 years and brilliant with your children etc. Someone you liked and your wider family liked.

You found that she had taken your expensive make up and brushes etc, a few things over time and kept them.

A few other things, small, have gone missing over the years and now doubts are in my mind. If I am honest I am not sure she is 100% trustworthy she in this regard, if she thinks I don't want it I'm not convinced she won't swipe it. I would trust her not to take money or anything big.

I've also given her a few make up bits and pieces over the years and I happened to be at her flat and see my stuff there. I am not sure about everything but I know for certain that she has taken at least 3 items (I am absolutely certain these are mine and she has taken them without my permission - v unusual stuff).

I know she is superb with my children, they adore her and I cannot fault her in any other respect but this discovery is really getting to me :(

OP posts:

Are your children’s vaccines up to date?

Set a reminder

SparklePffftBANG · 07/11/2010 08:10

oh dear
not surprised this is getting to you
not sure what to suggest other than pulling her up on it (assuming you are 100% certain)

firefrakkers · 07/11/2010 10:01

In my contract theft is gross misconduct.

I feel you need to mention it, purely because if you want to mention this in a reference you need to have some form of proof/paper trail. Did her referees mention anything like this?

How on earth is she justifying this to herself? And do you think she would be able to justify pinching bigger things if she can convince herself that make up is okay? It's a line you don't cross.

You don't need to sack her but honestly, personally, I wouldn't really be able to trust her any more and if you can't trust your nanny the relationship is going to break down. This person has huge influence on your children's moral development too. If she thinks stealing, which taking things without your permission is, is acceptable then what else goes?

nannynick · 07/11/2010 10:23

How do you know it's yours you saw in their flat? They could have brought it after seeing yours, they could have had someone else buy it for them. While you say it is unusual stuff, it presumably isn't a one off item... so there will be others around the world.

I think legally you need to have "reasonable cause" which you may well have but would it be worth the hassles and time proving that to an employment tribunal? If you sack them without following the full disciplinary procedure, they would be advised to take to tribunal - possibly based on Celebi v Compass.

Maybe she has borrowed the makeup - Case: Mr Coulby claimed he had merely borrowed the wood to do a job at home.

Is she aware that the items are missing - have you told her that x, y, z are missing? That would be a first step - never know, they may turn up.

So if you want to dismiss them, you will need to follow disciplinary procedures carefully, making sure you tell them of the accusation.
As employer you must accurately set out the charge against the employee.

Is it time to reconsider your childcare requirements? Maybe a nanny isn't what you need anymore... thus could make her redundant.

Simbacatlives · 07/11/2010 10:31

Why were you in her flat? It is a fine line between employer and employee. I can see no reason to go to her home.

I have friends who have seen a nanny as a friend- and socialised with them- then been upset when it all goes wrong- they are not a friend- they are an employee.

Blondeshavemorefun · 07/11/2010 11:33

as nn said are you def sure they are your items and not ones that she has brought like yours?

what 3 items did she take?how unusual are they?

could someone else like a cleaner have take them?

have you mentioned that items are missing?

sim - my employers have been round to my house

Original poster

NorhamGardens · 07/11/2010 12:08

Thanks for replies so far.

Definitely sure the items I've seen are mine, 100%. I thought I'd lost them somewhere, they include a vary unusual brush inside a large pot. The brush did not originally come with the pot. Also a sable brush set which I thought I'd lost which was a gift. Again I thought I'd must have been careless and left it when I was travelling with work.

They are not worth hundreds or pounds but not cheap rubbish either. It's really annoyed me that she has them & shocked me a bit. There were another couple of items on the shelf that I believe are also mine but am not 100%.

I've seen my items in her flat, it wasn't as social call. We do get on well but don't socialise together.

OP posts:

Fiddledee · 07/11/2010 12:31

so you have two choices her - fire her or else hide all your make up put it under lock and key, if she asks why you have done that (unlikely because she may realise she has been rumbled) say because a few pieces have gone missing recently. I doubt whether she will do it again once she has realised you know.

LisaD1 · 07/11/2010 12:47

Personally, I would engineer a need to go to her flat again and ask while I'm there for mt stuff back! I would then tell her that fab with the children or not if so much as a penny (or equivalant in value) goes missing from my home again she will be fired on the spot and the police called.

I don't think I could continue long term though to have somebody in my home that I couldn't trust with my belongings, even if they were great with the DC.

Blondeshavemorefun · 07/11/2010 12:57

you have a choice to say nothing about the stuff and carry on (never knowing)

or to mention the things have gone missing, but sure they will turn up as things often do (and see if they do)

or go round her flat and say, wow where did you get these from, ive got something just like that and its been missing (and see what her response is)

fwiw, however good a nanny is, i couldnt trust her with my children if she has been stealing

Rach109 · 07/11/2010 15:46

stealing is stealing,no matter what the monetary value!
I wouldn't / couldn't trust anyone who has done this

minderjinx · 07/11/2010 16:39

This is an odd one! If she were concerned about having these things, why would she invite you to her flat and let you see them there? Could there have been some misunderstanding - for example, could you have left them in her room and she assumed they were a gift, or might one of the children have given them to her and she has assumed it was with your consent? Or could you (or one of the children) have accidentally put these things in the rubbish, and she believes she has saved them from the tip? I think you have to ask.

Stardown · 07/11/2010 18:46

You say it wasn't a social call - so how did you get into her flat to see the items?

Northernlurker · 07/11/2010 21:14

Why were you in the flat?

Blondeshavemorefun · 08/11/2010 09:34

maybe op popped in to give wages etc, tho sounds more ominous as wasnt a social call ie was a informal chat

wrinklyraisin · 08/11/2010 10:51

I wonder if the OP went in uninvited as the nanny lives in albeit with her own flat? That's how she found her things and this makes it difficult to bring it up with the nanny? Whether she stole or not its a huge invasion of privacy to just go into her private space. As a nanny I would be furious. Just because its your property doesn't mean she doesn't have some rights. The stealing (st this point alleged) doesn't give you rights to sneak around. If you want to have an open and honest discussion about it you have to act in a decent and honest way yourself or she will throw this back in your face iyswim.

wrinklyraisin · 08/11/2010 10:51

AlbaSaaby · 08/11/2010 13:23

Maybe she just 'borrowed' the items and forgot to return them. It doesn't seem as if she 'stole' them to me, although I could be wrong.

Oligo · 08/11/2010 20:12

I'd bring it up. Isn't borrowing without permission a bit like stealing?

My mb has come to my place with children so they could see where I lived and also at christmas to decorate tree.

Blondeshavemorefun · 08/11/2010 20:39

Isn't borrowing without permission a bit like stealing?

yes it is :)

phipps · 08/11/2010 20:46

I think you have a few options -

Ask her outright if she has taken things from your house that belong to you. Then shut up. Watch her. Don't mention them individually. Hopefully you will know her well enough to know if she is lying or not.

Say some things have gone missing and does she know where they are/has she seen them?
Don't be too surprised if they appear very soon after. You will have to be 100% certain you haven't misplaced them somewhere.

Plant something. Mark it in some way so if it is taken then you will know for sure it was yours.

Do and say nothing and be left wondering.

FWIW I used to be a nanny and would have expected instant dismissal for stealing.

thebody · 08/11/2010 21:03

just feel whole set up is wrong.. i mean if she IS a theif how can you trust her in other ways around your children and if she did steal these things wouldnt she have hidden them!!!

a bit confused...

minderjinx · 11/11/2010 07:14

So what happened? Are you looking for a new nanny or was there a good explanation?

diamond2101 · 12/11/2010 03:21

I think you should talk to her and ask her outright as you're probably going to feel very uneasy until u get to the bottom of this.

As others have previously mentioned - if she knew u were coming, why would she have them on display? That's assuming she has stolen these items. Surely she would have hidden them unless u caught her offguard and she wasnt expecting you?

As a nanny/babysitter, I've worked for lots of different families and have often bought items on ebay etc (for a much cheaper price) which are similar or identical to that of my bosses because I've liked it/we have similar taste! This includes make up, clothes, house furnishings etc. I'd be mortified if my employer visited me and could even think never mind accuse me of stealing but then that's just me - I was brought up to work hard and save money to buy my own things, not steal from others and deprive them from what's rightly theirs.

You need to sort this out though. Maybe there is another explanation for each individual item - cleaner (if u have one) could have taken it or broken something accidently. The children may have done something with them.......the amount of times I thought I'd lost something or it had be stolen somewhere but my little one has thrown it in the bin/her toy box etc.

I hope u get to the bottom of this. Honesty's the best policy either way.

BoffinMum · 12/11/2010 09:21

I've employed a couple of light fingered people, and also worked with an out and out thief who stole parcels and people's handbags (she got caught out one time, so suspicions subsequently proved correct, which is rare).

It's strangely hard ever to get to the bottom of it as upon investigation they invariably seem to have generalist kleptomanic tendencies and are well used to a) blatantly denying they have done anything of the sort, and b)manipulating things so you feel you are in the wrong and are a terrible person, even turning the tables and using attack as the best form of defence.

With hindsight I think if your instinct is telling you this has happened, then it probably has, even though you can't prove it and would never be able to bring a case, so my advice would be to manoeuvre yourself into a position where you can make her redundant (i.e. move to a live in nanny for 12 weeks, or use other arrangements for a similar period of time).

If you can't do this and need to sack her, then you will have to report it to the police and get a crime number, explaining to them that this is a genuine report, but you will need to have done this in order to have followed proper procedure in ending her employment. Then they won't feel they have to spend hours investigating the loss of a makeup brush or two, but that you aren't a loony either.

A devious and slightly dubious alternative is to nick your stuff back when you visit her house next, or plant lovely makeup thingies in places convenient for nicking with a little code implanted within them so you can 'prove' at some point that she has purloined them. But that will take time and be rather dodgy, and it sounds to me like the relationship has now broken down anyway.

BoffinMum · 12/11/2010 09:25

A caveat to all that is that our Mercedes-driving plumber was accused by a neighbour of nicking £40 when she had a reputation for leaving money all over the place and losing it, and that caused a lot of bad feeling as he was honest as they day was long. She was just used to assuming other people were dishonest ... he had to consult a solicitor and sort it out ... harm was done. Which is why it's probably better to find a way of letting the relationship fizzle out and move on to pastures new rather than doing anything dramatic.

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