Have you ever shouted at your nanny? Or been shouted at as a nanny?

[katherinewheel]

This week has been awful. I have a wonderful job that I put 100% in to and love the children to bits.

I wont go in to details about what happened as its a long complicated story thats been blown hugely out of proportion, basically a misunerstanding. (Thats agreed on both sides)

Had 3 discussions. 1. Employer raised her voice and used the words "I will be pissed off at you" She says this was flippant not offensive. I am quite sensitive so I could accept thats her way.

1. Employer leaned accross a low table and shouted in an aggresive manner waving his hands telling me he was angry. (Female boss told him to back off and has herself used the words "shouted and aggressive" when talking about the way he spoe to me.

1. Next day was appologised to but feels like implied it was my fault he did that. Where as I think even if it had been something I had done then theres a way to ask me to clarify a point (which I could easily!) When I explained I was still upset employer became exasperated and raised voice and said I would just have to get over it and people speak to each other like that in her work.

I am devastated, I love my job. I just want to erase the last week. I am 100% committed to them and would do anything for them. I feel so upset, especially as I thought they respected me.

Is it acceptable to shout at your nanny? I have had a number of nanny jobs and never had a voice raised at me once, let alone been shouted at.

Its okay to be a shouty person with your friends and family (if you must) but unacceptable with employees or colleagues who do not like it. I wonder what would have happened if op had shouted back?

I don't think the OP has really thought about why they reacted in such a way, tbh.

I am in no way condoning bullying or intimidating behaviour by the employers, btw - and if they are shouty and unpleasant, then I would definitely advise the OP to look for a new job.

However, looking after children (either as a parent or as a nanny) is a very emotive subject. I wonder exactly what was going on with the employers to make them react the way they did? As the OP seems to have been enjoying her work up to this point, and has had no indication that her employers are bullies, then clearly something has happened during this miscommunication to provoke their response. That's all I'm saying.

But she does, IMO, need to understand why they reacted like this before she can understand whether or not they are just shouty bullies, or whether there was a genuine reason for their response. You know, the whole 'walk a mile in their shoes' thing?

Out of interest, biwi, from what op has told us - why do you think the DB shouted at her?

Do you think it was because op was a bit vague?

or do you think he got the wrong end of the stick and got frustrated with not understanding?

Or do you think he'd just had a bad day?

Or do you think she's been annoying in some other way and he got cross about the hospital appointments as a way of venting?

In any of those circumstances, do you think its acceptable for him to shout at her?

Lord knows, I am a shouty enough person but I have never shouted at anyone at work. Its just not on.

Nanny employer of 11 years here - never shouted, never dreamt of shouting, never had voice raised to me. (We have had a few miscommunications and issues-needing-discussion here and there, but both sides have always been super-careful to approach in a grown-up way.)

On the shouting at work, I don't know kat what other work you've done, but in my work (which can be quite stressful & pressured) the worst thing anyone ever does is use your name - as in, "I think this needs to be reviewed again, Sarah " - that "Sarah" is a chiller.

In the near-20 years I've done this, I have heard a raised voice fingers-of-one-hand times - and the whole office freezes (and has a good stare)!

I wonder though if what BIWI is getting at is whether there is history - there having been crossed wires/lack of clarity before now - so rather than reacting aggressively to a one-off, they were reacting to what they see as a pattern? Worth asking them exactly that, if you can.

I had one job where I spent a year being shouted and screamed at (along with the rest of the staff) from one psychotic mb.
It was horrible how quickly you lose all your confidence even though deep down you know you haven't actually done anything wrong.
It is not acceptable and I'd refuse to accept any excuses such as 'stressed.' I hate the way that is alright for nanny employers to claim but it would not be alright for the nanny to do the same. Their house or not you deserve to be treated with respect. It sounds like you were more than accomodating trying to arrange cover for them.

Unacceptable. Totally. Irrespective of ... well, anything. You are unwell, you are scheduling important appointments to suit them, not you, not immediately as your Dr would have had you do. You are arranging cover... they should be bending over backwards to be nice to you!

Shouting is pointless even if you had driven the car without the kids in their car seats, sent them out the play in their vests in the snow etc - but somewhat understandable...

In this case, it is not understandable and not acceptable.

However, as you liked the job previously and obviously have a bond with the children, I would let sleeping dogs lay and see how it goes for the next little while... see how you feel when you are feeling a bit better - see if they try to 'make it up to you' in anyway.

You can always look for a new job in the New Year if you don't feel happy there anymore. I would also be more aware of your own needs in this relationship as it sounds like everything benefits them, not you.

Hope you get all the medical stuff sorted quickly and are feeling much better soon! x

OP - you have my sympathy. i would never dream of shouting at my nanny, or raising my voice at her. i cannot imagine a situation where i would feel like this was an appropriate response. even when she told me she had reversed my car into a metal post outside my house, i laughed...

you are one of the most important people in your employers' DC's lives and therefore in their own lives too. you deserve to be treated with utmost respect at all times, as long as you are treating them with respect (which it does sound as though you are doing and have always done).

and *fluffles - no, you don't get any training to be an employer when you take on a nanny, but i feel far more protective of my nanny and think far more about the implication of everything i ask her to do or every change i request of her than i have ever done about asking any of the dozens of people who have worked for me in a 'professional setting' (ie my staff at work).

Please don't think I'm trying to excuse shouty behaviour! I'm not at all.

I'm just thinking back to the years when I employed a nanny; there is a huge amount invested (emotionally) in employing someone to look after your children, and it can also be a very difficult balancing act, keeping your working hours to 9-5, so that you can be there when the nanny arrives, and then get home to let the nanny finish on time (and we were absolutely scrupulous about doing this), and getting your own work done/meetings attended, etc.

I was wondering whether, because of the miscommunication, it was possible that the employers thought that their own work arrangements (whatever they were) were now being compromised by the nanny not being available when they expected her to be.

I obviously have no idea if this is the case!

However, if you suddenly find out you can't do something/attend a meeting, etc, because you have no childcare, it can be very difficult, and very stressful, especially if it is short notice, and other peoples' schedules are also involved.

I can tell you, from my own experience, that the fear of having no-one to look after your child/children, when there's something really important that is going on at work is not an easy one to deal with, so I can understand why someone might lose it, if they thought that this was happening to them.

I'm not condoning it, but it makes it more understandable - in other words, there is a reason for their behaviour.

If there isn't a reason, then they are just bullies and the OP should find another job asap.

(And by the way, we had two nannies - the first one worked with us for 5 years and the second one for 9 years and we never raised our voices at either of them! )

Been with them since Feb. I was really happy, I would do anything for them. This is the first issue we have had. Which is a good thing BUT on the other hand which is the first time we ever have an issue - a very minor one and this is how it turns out - it makes me scared for the future.

Thanks for all the replies. I feel a mess. I am terrified to go back tomorrow. I cant take another discussion.

I would be very worried about the future, too. A man has shouted at you and intimidated you. There is no excuse and it will happen again. He hasn't even apologised properly.

I have terminated a parent who shouted at me in my own home. I relented against my better judgement when his wife phoned me in tears.

It happened again. And again. And then I got sick of being intimidated in my own home and I refused to allow him in it. I told him he either sent his wife to pick up or he took his child out. He chose the latter.

No-one deserves to be bullied and, quite frankly, if his wife thinks that's normal behaviour with HER employers, she seriously needs to re-evaluate her job, too.

thanks. I feel like i am over reacting because of their reactions. So so stressed.

Not a nanny or an employer of one so I have no right to post but . . . you have an appointment because your GP was worried you might have something wrong with your heart, and you get "I'd be pissed off with you" from one, shouted at by the other and no proper apology?

How easy is it to resign and leave? They sound awful.

Not easy at all BalloonSlayer :( I can't take another week like last week, my nerves are wrecked.

I was shouted at a few times and hung up on by one db when I couldn't always work overtime at short/no notice, wouldn't make up their extra holiday at the weekend, when refering to the contract they'd say 'this is personal relationship, why you bringing up official things'. Your guys don't sound that bad but it did start with small things.

Eventually I left but should have MUCH sooner. When I gave contracted notice (they knew it was coming) they refused to pay me 2 weeks + notice and db chased me out the building waving a cheque saying I could have it if I came back but could never see children again if I didn't! Think he was just used to getting his own way at work and buying everything he wanted.

It was my first family and would never put up with that now and certainly wouldn't get upset as much about it, though its always hard at the time.

Can you just send an email, as someone suggested before, saying it's really been playing on your mind and how awkward you find the whole thing and didn't know hhow to bring it up in person.

how did this morning go? did you mention or send an email saying you felt unhappy with their reactions

biwi has some good points - we all have bad days , including employers (dont forget they are human ) and yes they shouldnt have shouted but sounds like a lot of crossed wires

obv your health is important and you need to make sure you go to appointments

You sound very involved. IMO you should be willing to do anything (reasonably) for the children, but you are employed by their parents, it's a two way street, you should only "do stuff" for them if it's in your interests or you are doing them a favour.

Yes, once. Fortunately only once in 3 yrs. Nanny was chatting with a nanny friend, kids were unsupervised, one bit the other as I happened to have walked in - I ended up pulling them apart. I shouted at them both!!

Followed by copious grovelling and about a week or so continous apologies.

However, I did realise I was in the wrong even though I wasn't happy about the situation it wasn't the right response.

I guess to NannyNick's point we are all human - I had had a very bad week. I would be more interested though in whether they realised this was the wrong approach and are trying to rectify.

K75 - sounds like your nanny&friend needed to be shouted at

seriously everyone shouts - I have at hubby, I have at the children went doing something silly/dangerous

we are all human :)

but agree it's what happened afterwards that's counts

what happened today op?

Well yesterday was akward. I came in bang on my start time and left on finish time MB was her usual nice self and I was civil and polite but I am usually very chatty, I didnt speak about anything apart from the essentials.

This morning I saw DB for the first time since he shouted. I realise it would be him when I arrived (can tell if cars there or not) and I was almost sick with nerves in the car. Usually I come in, put slippers on and make a cuppa tea (am usually 10min early so dont feel bad doing that and am encouraged to do so) but today I kept boots on as if he shouted I was going to walk out as I cant take it again. He was friendly and I was quite quiet with him, I felt nervous around him etc. Then when older 2 were upstairs he said he wanted to appologise for last week, said he just snapped, was under a lot of pressure at work, was worrying about things and he said he knows that it shouldnt have happened and he feels really bad and he hopes I can forgive him. He said that a few times about hoping I can forgive him. It seemed really genuine, it felt genuine when he said it. I said thanks when he appologised. Not sure if that was right thing to say?! I wasnt going to say "no no dont worry about it" because thats the wrong message. I meant the thanks, I meant thanks for appologising and realosing how upset I was.

So we will see. I want to stay. I love the children very much, I love that I have freedom to do what I want most days, I love that I am allowed to do pretty much what I want and that I am trusted to do that as I hate being micromanaged. But I desperately wish last week hadnt happened. Its changed things. Now hes appologised (a proper one not an appology with blame attached) I feel better. Thats what I wanted them to do - accept how wrong it was. We have had no issues at all untile this. In one way thats good in another it makes me nervous as this is first issue and look what happens.

I dont think it can go back to how it was, I have learned that at the end of the day I am staff. And as my nanny friend has been telling me for ages I need to stop doing extra stuff (their washing up, staying late etc)

I hope I have conveyed to them how much I dont accept that and I am hoping it never ever happens again. If it ever does I will walk out of the discussion. And very likely the job.

Thanks for all your advice and support. :)

What do you think about what happens now?

tbh you shouldnt be sick with nerves when arriving at work :(

but hopefully tomorrow you wont feel like that as db appoligized

i think you should try and forget about it, it happened, db said sorry several times so he knew he was in the wrong and if you like the other aspects of the job then move on

hope your appointment goes well and doctors sort you out :)

Well if you can readjust to the new situation (ie being an employee rather than part of the family) and you're happy with his apology then stay. I hope you told him you weren't happy to be spoken to like that though.

If you think this has irreperably damaged the working relationship then I would look around for a new job.

It's such a personal decision that whichever you decide is justified.

I am glad that he has apologised seemingly unreservedly.

I think that something has "broken" in your situation though and it won't mend easily (as you said, a breach of trust, like a cheating boyfriend, has occurred). But if you can, try to move towards getting the easy feeling back. Not exactly "forgive and forget" - but try and forgive them for their uncharacteristic outburst. I would stick with your paid hours now though - perhaps by giving them too much they saw you as more of part of the family/furniture than you actually are and it distorted the professional relationship (I am NOT blaming you in any way, btw!)

If you think it is appropriate, it might be an idea to explain more fully about the need for the heart monitor and what anxiety and stress do to you healthwise.

And if it ever happens again, leave.