My chilminder put my kids out in her garden because I was 10 mins late

[mimosa]

Am I over-reacting?
Due to circumstances beyond my control I was 10 mins late collecting my children today. When I arrived they were in their coats with their bags by their feet, sat in my childminders gargen (They are 3 and 5) She was with them. It was 6.10 and getting dark, and very cold.
I know I only pay her until 6, but this is the first time I have ever been late and every other day I collect them a good 15-20 mins early.
What would have happened if I had had an accident or been held up even longer - how long would she have kept them out there?
I need to know that if I am ever in that situation again, that my children are being looked after still.
I would happily pay her if I am late - but I really feel like she doesnt have the best interest of my children at heart.
I am new to this using a childminder lark - and I dont know if I am over-reacting. What should I do?

From the title, I thought you'd found your kids sitting on their own in front of a locked up house thumbing lifts....

If your three year old and five year old are anything like mine, then getting on coats can easily take ten minutes chat. Presumably everyone was tired and wanted to wind up the day as efficiently as possible.

In my culture, kids with coats indoors are a no no. The thinking is they'll get hot and sweaty being overwrapped indoors, and then catch a chill when they go out. I would have been more p'ed to find them muffled up and uncomfortable indoors while the CM did her own thing.

To me, she sounds pretty caring, tbh, to sit with them and wait, even when 'the meter had run out'. Have you thought that maybe your five year old saw all the other kids being picked up - or even looked at the time - and started to get upset that you weren't there? Getting dressed might have been an effective distraction from sitting on the bottom step worrying about whether you'd forgotten. since you hadn't phoned, the CM would reasonably expect you to be there in minutes not hours.

When my Dd was at nursery, me and another mum were always cutting it to the wire, picking up at six on the dot. I swear, 5.55 penultimate child, Dd was happily playing. However, if the other mum had pipped me to the post, and it was 5.59 and Dd was the last one, I'd always find her sitting like a little orphan, big sad eyes, holding the key workers hand.

I think it's a bit odd that they were outside. I understand the point of them being in their hats and coats but I can't see any reason why they couldn't have sat on the sofa and waited. Like you say, it does sound a bit like the meter had run out.

I agree SOCD. If 10 minutes throws the whole evening into disarray then probably the CM in question needs to rethink a bit. It's not beyond the realms of possibility that, with the best will in the world, a parent could be held up by unforeseen circumstances. Surely it's realistic to plan for that?

Well the meter had run out hadn't it? You were on her time - the cm probably had things to do, the kids wanted to go home, so she had them ready and waiting to go with the least fuss possible.

I expect the last thing the cm wanted was you to come in and want to chat about their day, have to prise the children away from their game/the TV, get shoes on, deal with them playing up as you get them out the door... Suddenly it's 30 minutes lost instead of just 10.

Even if she was making a point, apologise and don't be late again. Maybe she'd had a problem with persistent lateness in the past and wanted to nip it in the bud.

Seriously, it is incredibly annoying when parents are late and it DOES impact on your evening.

I am a nanny and my employer regularly turns up late without phoning me. It's at the point now where, unless I text her that day and tell her I need to be out on time because I have an appointment or plans, she will, without a doubt, be at least 10 minutes late.

I now get mine and my own child's shoes on and watch out of the window so that we are ready to leave when she arrives. I think it's highly unfair to enforce overtime on someone, especially someone with their own child.

And the rest of us working mortals are doing what? I take the point, of course I do, but that's life. I finish work at 5.15. I rarely leave the office at 5.15 because there's always that last phone call to take, or that last email to answer or meeting to finish. I'm not advocating lateness or saying you should like it but you don't get special protection from these things, you're part of the workforce same as the rest of us. I know that leaving work at 5.15 gets me home for 6.30. So I never schedule anything before 7 because the odds are that I won't get there for 6.30. It only takes some roadworks or a colleague asking a question to cause a delay. It's not extra time I get paid for, it's time I don't get to spend with DD but that's what happens when you work.

And I don't think anyone is saying that the CM in question should have filled the time with structured play or whatever, but sitting them on the sofa with their coats on is understandable. Making them wait outside is not.

Persistent lateness is different of course. But we're assuming unless told different that this was a one off.

But what if they were taking an opportunity to learn about the sky at night what with there being a newish moon AND Jupiter to look at?

we can't tell without more info, really

I really don't see what the problem with them waiting outside is - it's 6pm in the UK in autumn, not the middle of the night in sub zero temperatures.

And if you're paid hourly, then you work the hours you're paid for. When I've worked in pubs, shops, nurseries - if I'm paid til 5 then I leave at 5.

Children should not be sitting around inside with their coats on. They were safe, they were dressed in the clothing that YOU CHOSE as appropriate outdoor clothing, and they were supervised.

A one-off is fine. A one-off with a phone call is even better. But to regularly take 15 minutes out of my time without asking is not ok. How would it be if I were to take 15 minutes from the other end of the day and regularly turn up late? It wouldn't work at all. I expect the same as I give. If I am stuck in traffic then the least I will do is ring and give warning.

Well has nobody thought that 10mins late is that amount that it is difficult to decide whether to take the time to text/call as it may make you later. If you are driving in traffic you should really pull over to make a call or send a text which is not always practical and loses you time anyway.

You may not have known you would be late when you set out.

When I used a childminder I used to pay until 6.30pm every day but pick up by 6pm all the time. The 30mins was for my peace of mind and also for the every odd occasion when I had a meeting in town and being back by 6pm was a rush.

The problem with that though was that the CM happily took the pay for the xtra hour but was obviously put out on the odd occasion I had to use that extra half hour. I would always warn her in the morning if I would be later then 6pm and she rarely acknowledged it with good grace. She obviously wanted the money but wasn't keen on actually always being available until 6.30pm which is what I paid her for. So it can go both ways.

The op has siad that she regularly picks up 20 mins early so a one-off of 10 mins late should be dealt with gracefully and cheerfully by a cm in my opinion. Persistent lateness is a completely different matter.

how do you know that the cm didn't deal with OP with grace and cheer?

more extrapolation

My own children were still out playing at 6.30 last night, where abouts are you as it may have been a bit chilly( mine had t shirts on!) but it wasn't dark.
I Can't see the problem, she may have sat her own children down for dinner and that is their private time, any number of reasons that she was waiting.
She also could have done it as she understood you were running late and wanted to save you any more time.

Interesting thread.

I am a childminder. You have to look at this from two view points. As a childminder I have to deal with parents arriving late. Some times its due to the traffic sometimes due to chatting with a friend. It can be frustrating when this happens over and over again. I would not have had the kids outside but I may have got them ready for collection.

Its manners also for parents to let the childminder know that they are going to collect late. Sometimes a parent may arrive and not apologise for lateness.

From a parent point of view it looks as though after 6 pm the childminder switched off.

You needs to look at the whole situation to whether the childminder is giving a overall good service rather than judging just this case.

Anyone who can finish work on the dead of 5pm or whenever their contracted hours are is very very lucky. It is the exception not the rule, even though it should be the rule.

Yes Rockbird I agree, but maybe this occasion was the exception for the childminder.

I would have been really pleased that they were all in their coats and ready to go to make a quick exit.

If I was 25-30 minutes later than normal to pick up my kids (I know you were only ten minutes "late" but you said you normally pick them up earlier), which I am sometimes, then I know they would have been more tired and hungry than normal and I'd have been rushing to get them home and get dinner into them (my two were hideous last year at this age when in need of food!). I'd be really happy that the childminder had got them all ready for me. That would have helped me out a lot.

Rockbird
childminders in my area get paid £3.50 per child per hour and I think it's reasonable to expect that the childminders, who do a good job for a very low wage, to be able to finish work on time. Every other low wage job I've had I've been out the shop/pub door on the dot. In the job I do now I'm fine with staying late for all sorts of reasons.

It's also reasonable to understand that sometimes people are late. So I don't think the op was being unreasobale by being late.

I often wait outside with kids if we're being picked up by someone because once I've got their shoes on it seems easier.

I would have just assumed she was on her way somewhere.

I think it's really hard understanding that your child's carer is not just doing it for the joy of it, but I'm sure that's part of the reason.

Don't be downhearted op- I think it was a very minor incident and doesn't reflect how your childminder feels about your kids.

I think it says a lot about how you feel about your life and I'm sorry you feel conflicted about having to work.

defineme, don't get me wrong, I don't advocate lateness at all and I'm not saying for a moment that it's acceptable to just rock up late every day and expect a happy CM, of course not. But, the very fact that someone is using a CM means that they are also doing a job and they might not be able to down tools at 5 on the dot once in a while. Now ok, then they should take that into consideration when organising their childcare but if you go into business as a CM then I think you have to half expect that there might be the occasional hiccup and to allow for that. Charge by all means and charge double or triple but seems daft to make arrangements for 5 minutes after your mindee is due to go. That's asking for trouble.

Anyway, I guess we're getting off the point:)

Did you let the CM know that you'd be late? As I'd imagine that that would have made a big difference to her actions. If you are normally 15-20 minutes early then effectively you were 25-30 mins late (realise not on contracted hours, but on common practice), so its likely that she'd already tidied up for the night and got them ready to leave, so 'looking for Mummy' was something appropriate to do and would keep them entertained.